The Wallabies Thread

[gel]

And still no examples, I will give you the only on I can think of, Nonu. But I would suggest he is one of the very very few

Examples - almost every single one of them.

They almost all improve on their weaknesses as they play.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) still wouldn't pass after 100 tests.

Do you honestly believe that no one can address their deficiencies, practice to eliminate them and therefore improve? Is that what you are actually saying, because that is what I am interpreting by your posts.

 

[KOB1987]

Only 7 Brumbies included in the wider squad, all of which will remain after the final cull of course. I would have thought that Alcock, Banks and one or two others could have been included based on the teams performance.

The squad gets trimmed down at the end of this week doesn't it? I thinks it's probable that most of the non-Brumbies who have been included in the wider training squad have been there as positional cover for the Brumbies who are all now assuming their spots in the final squad.

 

[ShtinaTina]

The squad gets trimmed down at the end of this week doesn't it?

Well, they're sent back to their Clubs. They reconvene for the 6th August, I don't think we'll know who's cut or not till then.

The footage coming out from the camp is good to see, lots of work, 3 sessions a day & that's about it.

 

[Scrubber2050]

All the evidence suggests that Cheika selects McMahon in the matchday 23 when he is healthy.

Some players want more than just being in the 23.

Some players want to start, particularly when they believe that is warranted. This is the case with McMahon.

Frankly, to me he brings more than Hooper and more than Pocock but knows with Cheika in command the other 2 blokes will never be dropped for one Sean McMahon. Therefore he said fuck that I'll go for the money.

I certainly don't blame him at all.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Well, they're sent back to their Clubs. They reconvene for the 6th August, I don't think we'll know who's cut or not till then.

The footage coming out from the camp is good to see, lots of work, 3 sessions a day & that's about it.

3 sessions a day. Sounds like plenty of bash and barge. With a bit of luck they will have a bit of energy left to play some scintillating rugby and whitewash the opposition.

 

[fatprop]

Do you honestly believe that no one can address their deficiencies, practice to eliminate them and therefore improve? Is that what you are actually saying, because that is what I am interpreting by your posts.

It his highly unlikely you are going the going to get 20m extra on a kick or get 10m faster or develop a better work ethic or pass effectively with to both side as an international test player

By the time they get there, they are pretty well baked in


Do they work on weaknesses? sure, but they don't ever eliminate them.

The challenge is that as they go up levels, those weaknesses become more glaring

For example Foley is never going to get an extra 20m on his kicks, so he works on his accuracy and finding grass working within his limitations

 

[Jagman]

Just quietly I think Foley has improved his kicking distance over the past few years by at least 5 meters (in game kicking that is). You can see he has no trouble kicking 45 meters off the tee any more which was previously too far.

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[wamberal]

Given that his distance is a problem, Popgun Foley should be the world's most accurate kicker, shirley?


But his accuracy (particularly out of hand) is pathetic. Why is this so? A congenital weakness? Bloody fourth graders can kick better.

 

[gel]

It his highly unlikely you are going the going to get 20m extra on a kick or get 10m faster or develop a better work ethic or pass effectively with to both side as an international test player

By the time they get there, they are pretty well baked in


Do they work on weaknesses? sure, but they don't ever eliminate them.

The challenge is that as they go up levels, those weaknesses become more glaring

For example Foley is never going to get an extra 20m on his kicks, so he works on his accuracy and finding grass working within his limitations

Hahahahaha.

He does *not* work on his accuracy and does not work on his tactical kicking.

Evidence? He is no different now to what he was when he first started - he still doesn't find touch when he should and he still doesn't find grass.

Furthermore - when starting at a low base , then yes significant gains can most definitely be made through proper attention to technique and practice. Foley could significantly improve his length and accuracy if he dedicated himself to properly addressing his technique and constant practice. He could also kick with his left foot almost as well as with his right if he put his mind and effort to it (which opens up an enormous number of options for the team and raises his threat level).

But he hasn't.

And he should have.

 

[Braveheart81]

Given that his distance is a problem, Popgun Foley should be the world's most accurate kicker, shirley?

But his accuracy (particularly out of hand) is pathetic. Why is this so? A congenital weakness? Bloody fourth graders can kick better.

Why would someone who can't kick a long distance be more accurate than someone who can kick a long distance?

If he is kicking to his maximum power, he's sacrificing accuracy like everyone else.

You would expect that the player who can kick 60m should be much more accurate than Foley over 40m when that is closer to Foley's maximum range but the player with the longer kick is working well within their limits.

If we're talking about kicking for touch on penalties, it seems like all kickers sacrifice accuracy for distance. I think the rate at which players miss touch has increased. Most of them seem to be averaging about once a game whether they have huge boots or average boots.

 

[gel]

Why do you guys think this is his maximum? He's way better than what he is - it's clear as day.

I'm not sure you guys even watch rugby. Not the opposition in any case.

Watch when one of the NZ guys kicks for touch and watch the curve of the ball as it gently draws or fades to the touch line and gains a decent distance.

Watch when one of the Australian players tries to copy that and it bananas off the side of the boot and gains 10m.

Watch a box kick from any one of the Australian 9s and its distance is almost always too far (and the rest of the time, too short). The NZ ones are almost always perfectly contestable.

Are the kiwis genetically different somehow? Are they wearing different leather in their boots? Are the footballs designed to respond only to non Australian feet?

I've just watched several years of rugby seeing exactly that shit happen time and time gain, so you guys saying otherwise either don't watch rugby, or you are satisfied with eating shit on your poorly toasted bread.

 

[gel]

And don't say that shit like what I described above doesn't happen all the time.

It's fucking monotonous with how regular it is.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Only 7 Brumbies included in the wider squad, all of which will remain after the final cull of course. I would have thought that Alcock, Banks and one or two others could have been included based on the teams performance.

Think Staniforth must have been very unlucky. Hasn't Cheika caught up with him playing for the Tahs next year?

 

[Braveheart81]

Why do you guys think this is his maximum? He's way better than what he is - it's clear as day.

I'm not sure you guys even watch rugby. Not the opposition in any case.

Watch when one of the NZ guys kicks for touch and watch the curve of the ball as it gently draws or fades to the touch line and gains a decent distance.

Watch when one of the Australian players tries to copy that and it bananas off the side of the boot and gains 10m.

Watch a box kick from any one of the Australian 9s and its distance is almost always too far (and the rest of the time, too short). The NZ ones are almost always perfectly contestable.

Are the kiwis genetically different somehow? Are they wearing different leather in their boots? Are the footballs designed to respond only to non Australian feet?

I've just watched several years of rugby seeing exactly that shit happen time and time gain, so you guys saying otherwise either don't watch rugby, or you are satisfied with eating shit on your poorly toasted bread.

Foley has clearly gained some distance on his kicks in the last few years. They are still short but I'm not convinced there is a great capacity to improve his distance.

Why can some people kick 60m and some nowhere near that? Why can some people run 100m in 10 seconds and others can't?

There's clearly physiological differences in players and whilst they can certainly improve around the margins the capacity of each is different.

I agree with you that a lot of Australian players need to practice their skills more.

I would say that across the board our players need to work harder on their skills.

Clearly Kiwis aren't genetically superior. It would be pretty likely that more of the best athletes in the country are playing rugby there though compared to Australia.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If we're talking about kicking for touch on penalties, it seems like all kickers sacrifice accuracy for distance. I think the rate at which players miss touch has increased. Most of them seem to be averaging about once a game whether they have huge boots or average boots.

BH, this is a very interesting issue. It seems to me that many of our kickers in Super Rugby sides elect for more certainty in finding touch at the expense of distance. Very few of our touch finders gain more than 20 - 30 m.

Yet from time to time when they strive for distance they will fail to get touch, but an impartial view would confirm that all teams do that from time to time, at test and Super Rugby level. I think we as fans are more critical of the times when our own kicker fails and we tend to overlook, or easily forget, that it happens to others as well.

Personally, I'd prefer our kickers to go for distance and wear the odd occasion that they fail to find the touchline.

 

[RugbyReg]

There's been some comment about who QC (Quade Cooper) plays best inside of so I went back to the records book.

I've gone through all of the GAGR Wallaby Player of the Year votes since we started doing them in 2010 and found the games where GAGR forum members (often the biggest critics of QC (Quade Cooper)) voted him in the top 3 overall players of a test match. I've gone back to those games to see who we played, where - and more relevantly, who his 12 (and 9) was. See below:

2010:

v FIJ (Won 49-3 in Canberra) - 9 Burgess & 12 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 1 pnt (out of overall 3-2-1)
v ENG (Won 27-17 in Perth) - 9 Burgess & 12 Barnes (3 pnts - MOM)
v ENG (Lost 20-21 in Sydney) - 9 Genia & 12 Giteau (2 pnts)
v IRL (Won 22-15 in Brisbane) - 9 Burgess & 12 Giteau (2 pnts)

2013:

v SAF (Lost 8-28 in Cape Town) - 9 White & 12 Lealiifano (3 pnts - MOM)
v NZL (lost 33-41 in Dunedin) - 9 Genia & 12 To'omua (3 pnts - MOM)
v ENG (lost 13-20 in London ) - 9 Genia & 12 To'omua (1 pnt)
v ITY (won 50-20 in Turin) - 9 Genia & 12 To'omua (3 pnts - MOM)
v IRL (won 32-15 in Dublin) - 9 Genia & 12 To'omua (2 pnts)
v WAL (won 30-26 in Cardiff) - 9 Genia & 12 Lealiifano (2 pnts)

2016

v NZL (lost 9-29 in Wellington) - 9 Genia & 12 Foley (2 pnts)
v SAF (W 23-17 in Brisbane) - 9 Genia & 12 Foley (1 pnts)

So I reckon you could make the strong claim he plays better in Wallaby colours with a ball player 12 outside him.

Or with Ewen McKenzie as his coach...

 

[gel]

Foley has clearly gained some distance on his kicks in the last few years. They are still short but I'm not convinced there is a great capacity to improve his distance.

Why can some people kick 60m and some nowhere near that? Why can some people run 100m in 10 seconds and others can't?

There's clearly physiological differences in players and whilst they can certainly improve around the margins the capacity of each is different.

I agree with you that a lot of Australian players need to practice their skills more.

I would say that across the board our players need to work harder on their skills.

Clearly Kiwis aren't genetically superior. It would be pretty likely that more of the best athletes in the country are playing rugby there though compared to Australia.

He's improved his place kick distance, but I see no evidence he's done much with his general play kicking - it remains the same as it ever was.

The reason I believe that he is nowhere near optimal is because there is no evidence that his general kicking has improved since he first came on the scene. That means he either came on the scene at his absolute peak or he's done nothing about this part of his game other than the bare minimum his franchise and team stipulate. Logic would say it's the latter.

He's not at his peak and by he could improve enormously.

He is not alone in that.

 

[Brumbieman]

more from the BM fan club

Meakes has looked very impressive this season, i'd really like to see him given some gametime in gold.

Runs hard, straight and aggressively, but has soft hands, can pass the ball IN FRONT OF HIS FUCKING RECEIVER and get them moving forward. Good short kicking game and hits hard in defence.

Does me! Looks like a great option at 12 this year.

 

[Braveheart81]

MASSIVE NEWS!

 

[Braveheart81]

Comments from Moore on the leadership team are interesting.

“As of the next Test I will be handing over the captaincy, and will spend the next four months supporting the new leadership team in any way possible," Moore said.
“We have a great bunch of developing leaders like Michael (Hooper), Adam (Coleman), Bernard (Foley), Samu (Kerevi), Allan (Ala'alatoa).
"Succession is a really important part of the leadership of any team and we've been working to that end for a number of years and having those discussions for some time.