The Tom Carter incident

[cyclopath]

Stephen Larkham seemed to end up in a lot of push and shove which seemed out of his skeletal pay-grade. Not sure how lippy he was, though.

 

[mark_s]

Ben tune. He always seemed to be close to where the niggle was

 

[cyclopath]

Nathan Grey too. More physical than verbal, I think.

 

[redstragic]

Damien smith was a little lippy, Del liked talking as well. Lote sledged his own boys.

 

[redstragic]

Kafe talked a bit as well didn't he?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Merely passing comment on Tom carter as requested. It is helpful for you to hear what the world has to say. There is a veil of idiocy that covers Sydney that isn't fog.

Have you wondered why the strongest Union, with the largest players base, the largest junior system, the largest town, the largest sponsorship pool............can't win anything?

I've missed you at The Whole farce WJ. Pop in for a less sensored discussion

Perth aint the world - but you can see it from there: on the internet

 

[Inside Shoulder]

AJ had his faults, there is no denying that. It is easy however to pick a couple of strange quotes to make anyone look like an idiot. That hardly tells the whole story.

Anyway, I was thinking about how he rehabilitated Cutler because of how he wanted to attack the lineouts, something which he had I modicum of success in. But of course we never won anything of worth under AJ did we?

How did he "rehabilitate" Cutler?
Cutler had only ever played as a reserve before Jones so rehabilitate is a bit much. Besides which the self interested self promotion done by Jones to secure the Wallabies job meant that Dwyer had not chance to use Cutler any more than he had - Cutler was 23 when Dwyer was dumped so who knows what use Dwyer would have made of him had he been left in charge: 23 in those days was like 19 now.
We lost something we should have won thanks to his selfishness and the fact that by the time of RWC87 the players had worked out that (a) he didnt know what he was talking about and (b) he was looking after #1.
For a while he was in the right place at the right time - everything he has done in rugby, both codes, since supports that view. So do most of those who played under him.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Each to his own I guess. Personally I would rather discuss rugby on a more strategic level.

not tactical?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ben tune. He always seemed to be close to where the niggle was

or in hospital

 

[biggsy]

So Gregan was a wanker, Genia is a wanker? mmmm OK

Gregan and Genia can play rugby, Carter not so much... So its fine for them as they can back it up on the field

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Gregan and Genia can play rugby, Carter not so much... So its fine for them as they can back it up on the field

that's circular - there are some in this and the other TC thread who think TC can play.
It would be a boring world if there was a rule that said you cant express your personality unless Biggsy thinks you can play rugby.....

 

[biggsy]

As For Marto's comments about Carter and Carter giving some back, ( A Week Later) Matro is a fuck wit and anything he says should not be taken to heart. I have know idea how he is involved with the Reds or Foxtel with the amount of Negativity he put on the Reds or other player through the Super 15
.

 

[biggsy]

that's circular - there are some in this and the other TC thread who think TC can play.
It would be a boring world if there was a rule that said you cant express your personality unless Biggsy thinks you can play rugby.....

Im sure there is as this is a open Rugby Forum. And I stand by what I said

 

[Inside Shoulder]

"there is" what?

 

[biggsy]

"there is" what?

" there are some in this and the other TC thread who think TC can play."

Im sure THERE IS others.

And I know about that thread and I know how much of a big fan you are of Carter. And also know that you don't like the Fact other people aren't.


Thats Rugby

 

[BPC]

How did he "rehabilitate" Cutler?
Cutler had only ever played as a reserve before Jones so rehabilitate is a bit much. Besides which the self interested self promotion done by Jones to secure the Wallabies job meant that Dwyer had not chance to use Cutler any more than he had - Cutler was 23 when Dwyer was dumped so who knows what use Dwyer would have made of him had he been left in charge: 23 in those days was like 19 now.
We lost something we should have won thanks to his selfishness and the fact that by the time of RWC87 the players had worked out that (a) he didnt know what he was talking about and (b) he was looking after #1.
For a while he was in the right place at the right time - everything he has done in rugby, both codes, since supports that view. So do most of those who played under him.

AJ wasn't the messiah by any means.

I accept that AJ went downhill fast. First, he had personal issues. No need to go into those or his commercial commitments as these are well known. Second, he was a strategic thinker rather than a tactician. I think coaches need to be a tactician first and strategist second. He was the sort of coach you bring in for one to two years max to shake things up then move on to a more "conventional" coach.

I still stand by my view that he was right when he talked about the 'shape' of the team and picking the best players to fit the shape and intended strategy/tactics rather (as many Australian coaches seem to do) pick the best players and then try to work out a strategy/tactics that make use of the players. McKenzie, since his stint in France, strikes me as a coach who thinks long and hard about strategy/selection as well as tactics. E Jones was the archetype of the statistician who picked the best players (mostly on statistics) rather than the best player for the plan. Focusing on statistics is sending us down that path rather than looking at the bigger picture. Scott and Bruce are both very correct about the limitations of statistics in this regard as well as their uses.

Carter suits a certain strategy. So does McCabe, FTA, Barnes, Tapuai, etc etc. Going back to the very first post, it just seems odd that people are so down on Carter when, statistically and accepting the limits of statistics, he is no worse and in many cases better than the other players. I think he carries on like a pork chop at times (not always by any means) but he is (a) well liked by his team mates, (b) useful to the Tahs apparent strategy and (c) statistically as good as his counterparts in other teams.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Im not a fan at all - he annoying and he's average, IMO, Im convinced his cards are marked and, frankly, they shouldnt have been because he had more claim to being picked, even if only for Samoa, than did anyone else still standing at that stage.

It should be "there are others" - thats what threw me

 

[biggsy]

Cool man,

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I just dont see how you can pick a strategy then pick the players. What happens when the first choice players get injured? One week you have a fly half who runs the ball and next week you have a tactician.
This is Jones ex post facto justification and utter bullshit: he had Ella to begin with and Lynagh at the end (I think)- they're not the same players and you couldn't expect them to play the same game and they didnt....so he picked Ella and when he didnt want to play anymore lo and behold Lynagh was able to play the same startegy with the same execution: I think not!
Was Jones' strategy to have Ella back the ball up - he'd been doing that before Jones turned up.
Its not as if in rugby there are right and wrong answers and anyway the right answers change because the questions are different.
I think you build all teams from the ground up. Building from the top down removes flexibility.

 

[daz]

I think he realises that he will almost certainly never be given the opportunity to play for the Wallabies or Australia A even if he were to do everything that all his critics tell him he must do and no matter how well he performs. So I have a very strong impression that he intends to ignore you all and just get out on the field and play the game the way he wants.

Just out of genuine interest, Bruce, why did Carter never get a game at the big show?

I only ask because you say that he won't get a gig "no matter how well he performs". Surely if he was an ace performer he would get a call up, even to the seconds, so what is the real reason?

2 years ago every man and his dog got a Wallaby jersey; Deans was practically handing them out as a special surprise in a box of corn flakes. There was even some hotly contested debate on this.

So, why did Tom Carter miss the bus?