The Tom Carter incident

[cyclopath]

Don't mean to be a killjoy but isn't this all pretty pointless.

As long as Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor) and Cooper are fit all players mentioned are going to struggle to get time at 12. Cooper at 12 is a better option over many of those mentioned.

Quade at 12? Or do you mean if Quade's at 10, the other 2 will fight it out for 12, which is what I think you mean?
Maybe so, but 2 of them aren't fit and may have a tendency to break again. QC (Quade Cooper) has a long way to come still to be match fit and in form. More than likely other candidates will be called upon at some point.

 

[Dan54]

Ok, I haven't read whole thread, but I'll chuck in my opinion anyway. I not a fan or otherwise of Carter, he strikes me as a good S15 player. As for sledging, doesn't really worry me, and if someone gives a player a bit of lip when he drops ball etc, well I did as a player, and have been known to applaud a player from sideline now and then when he makes cock up, does this make me a bad sportsman? Buggered if I know. Does it make Carter a bad sportsman, don't really think so, just not very good time to do it with a minute to go if your team aren't good enough to tie game up. Actually only really sensible comment I heard all week came from Michael Foley, when asked on Rugby Club for his take on Marto's little rant on Back Page, Foley just said who takes any notice of marto as commentator anyway, isn't he just trying to be a comedian, that noone listens to anyway? Well said Foley I say!

 

[Jets]

Really enjoyed your post Scott. The one thing about rugby is that you can't picked teams based on stats like you can in baseball or even cricket. There are so many things that good players do that don't get recorded in stats but when you watch them you know they are doing things to help the team. Getting back onside and helping return kicks is one such thing.
Also comparing players is impossible. The stats on Carter and McCabe differ on run meters as McCabe played 15 for the Ponies and had more space to run.

 

[Bruce Ross]

If you were picking a crash ball #12 with good defence for the Wallabies based on statistics alone you would have gone with Pat McCabe over Tom Carter anyway. McCabe played 1,078 minutes compared to Carter’s 1,270 in the season. McCabe averaged 11.95 metres gained every time he carried the ball in Super Rugby compared to 8.05 metres per carry for Carter and McCabe only missed 5 tackles all season compared to 9 for Carter. McCabe also made 22 line breaks, double the 11 made by Carter. (Source: Sports Data)

You fail to mention, Scott, that for all but the last three games of the season Pat McCabe was playing either full back or wing. During those games he attempted just 2.3 tackles per 80 minutes played and missed 24% of them. Carter slogged it out at 12 all season, attempting 12.3 tackles per 80 minutes and missing just 8% of them. (Source: Rugby Stats) The fact that a back-three player gains more metres per carry and makes more line breaks than an inside centre would not be unexpected but of course is totally irrelevant to the task of "picking a crash ball #12 with good defence".

 

[cyclopath]

Yeah, Dan. Foley's smack-down of Marto was very good.

 

[Waylon]

Sydney is the only town on the globe that rates him

QLD proved his inabilities last week. He scored 2 tries against Melbourne. Woopy do

He has the acceleration of Rodney Blake on crutches after a knee reconstruction , the elusiveness of a retarded sloth, the personality of kevin Rudd.......ok so he'll tackle you if you run straight at him. His opponents have worked out that if you step you'll be offered a lazy arm or a jersy pull.

Just what everybody else in the world knows. Don't blame us for the message

The Tahs talent identification and development is legendary for incompetence

The Tahs had to ask their supporters last year why they sucked

If management had any ability and competence, they would have worked it out for themselves

 

[Bruce Ross]

Send in the clowns
Don't bother, they're here.

 

[waratahjesus]

Sydney is the only town on the globe that rates him

QLD proved his inabilities last week. He scored 2 tries against Melbourne. Woopy do

He has the acceleration of Rodney Blake on crutches after a knee reconstruction , the elusiveness of a retarded sloth, the personality of kevin Rudd.......ok so he'll tackle you if you run straight at him. His opponents have worked out that if you step you'll be offered a lazy arm or a jersy pull.

Just what everybody else in the world knows. Don't blame us for the message

The Tahs talent identification and development is legendary for incompetence

The Tahs had to ask their supporters last year why they sucked

If management had any ability and competence, they would have worked it out for themselves

I've always wondered as a force supporter, when you look at the Tahs with so many problems in identifying talent, and there ability to have a fan forum and ask why they suck as you put it in a season were the B team still qualified fir the finals, how do you begin to judge your own team?

 

[qwerty51]

I loved it when a Force fan once accused the Tahs of playing boring, unimaginative rugby...

 

[matty_k]

Batfisted originated on twitter from a typo. I can't remember what the originator was intending to type but this is how she described what the Australian Cricket team was about to do to the Sri Lankans.

 

[Waylon]

Merely passing comment on Tom carter as requested. It is helpful for you to hear what the world has to say. There is a veil of idiocy that covers Sydney that isn't fog.

Have you wondered why the strongest Union, with the largest players base, the largest junior system, the largest town, the largest sponsorship pool............can't win anything?

I've missed you at The Whole farce WJ. Pop in for a less sensored discussion

 

[cyclopath]

Merely passing comment on Tom carter as requested. It is helpful for you to hear what the world has to say. There is a veil of idiocy that covers Sydney that isn't fog.

Have you wondered why the strongest Union, with the largest players base, the largest junior system, the largest town, the largest sponsorship pool............can't win anything?

I've missed you at The Whole farce WJ. Pop in for a less sensored discussion

GPS in the ankle bracelet?

 

[Utility Back]

I think i got it.

The opposing sides of TC come down to two basic underlying arguments.

One is that Tom Carter shouldnt be in the wallabies (or isnt a good centre) because he'll never win you a game

The other is that TC is an asset because he'll never lose you one.

 

[qwerty51]

So put him in and bet on the draw, you'll make millions!

 

[waratahjesus]

Merely passing comment on Tom carter as requested. It is helpful for you to hear what the world has to say. There is a veil of idiocy that covers Sydney that isn't fog.

Have you wondered why the strongest Union, with the largest players base, the largest junior system, the largest town, the largest sponsorship pool............can't win anything?

I've missed you at The Whole farce WJ. Pop in for a less sensored discussion

There is a difference between not winning a comp and not having a chance to win it. Having a good team means you miss out of Jrs. QLD for instance if they maintain there team for 3-4 years and have success will be forced wi the issue of having to either keep the players or blood juniors, it's getting the balance right and nsw have not always done this correct.

Ths Khoi for not answering my question of you.

I miss TWF to, younreally tone yourself down over here.

 

[twenty seven]

"There is a difference between not winning a comp and not having a chance to win it. Having a good team means you miss out of Jrs. QLD for instance if they maintain there team for 3-4 years and have success will be forced wi the issue of having to either keep the players or blood juniors, it's getting the balance right and nsw have not always done this correct."

Jeez WJ gotta agree with you on that one!!!!
Bit hard to chill in thirty odd degree heat with no air con...

 

[tigerland12]

I read the first page of this thread and that was enough for me. Why is this stupid discussion being brought up again, stats don't tell everything, Carter is simply not good enough. I'm not saying Fainga'a and Tapuai are brilliant either, but they are better then Carter is.

Either way this thread is still pointless and basically a way to start shit fights

 

[waratahjesus]

I read the first page of this thread and that was enough for me. Why is this stupid discussion being brought up again, stats don't tell everything, Carter is simply not good enough. I'm not saying Fainga'a and Tapuai are brilliant either, but they are better then Carter is.

Either way this thread is still pointless and basically a way to start shit fights

So don't ad to it and leave others to there discussion, why is this so hard for people.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sorry to be a pedant (you can't help it when using statistics) but why do you jump from using a per play like metres gained per carry to a gross statistic like tackles missed rather than %tackles missed? The gross tackles missed is misleading if Carter made three times as many tackles as McCabe. (I don't know the actual numbers).

I agree with your overall point. One of the most important points Alan Jones made when he was the coach was that you work out the strategy then pick the players who will fit that strategy. Obviously statistics play a role in bringing in some objectivity but they can't be the be all and end all. Sadly I think that for many years (Eddie Jones was a repeat offender) is that we picked the "best" player in a position without any sense of the overall shape of the team. I think that Deans sometimes falls into the same trap.

AJ talks a lot of rubbish and they were different days and he had an embarrassment of riches at the time: did he ever articulate his strategy?
His strategy, as I recall his particular brand of gibberish, was to win the breakdown, match or better them in the set piece, stop 'em at the gain line and make some breaks in the backs: that's not actually a strategy.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Tom Carter seems to enjoy his rugby more than most and I'm sure that his various coaches value his talents. He has been unlucky not to have played for Australia but this could be his year.

Who selects the centres. Does anyone think that McCabe and Fainga'a were the right centre pairing for the RWC given the quality we had in the outside backs. McCabe played wing and fullback mostly and Fainga'a inside centre, so why play them at 12 and 13. White has already told McCabe he won't be wearing 12 this year. And who was the idiot who selected Horne at 12 for his return in the USA match. His first touch was a crash ball into the giant USA no. 8 and he was broken again.

Part of the problem is the changing role of inside centre and part of it is the selectors having no idea. Players need to be selected for what they have done, not for what they may be able to do.