The Role of Private Schools in Australian Rugby

[Inside Shoulder]

I am a little confused. Why has Rugby gone backwards in the NSW State school system. In the 60's and 70's Rugby was a dominant winter code in the CHS system. Dominant to the point that GPS refused to play CHS because it could not compete. Yes that is true . It only lasted 2 or 3 years but it happened. I went to James Ruse and in our zone were Hurlstone, Granville, Liverpool, Fairfield, Parramatta, MacQuarrie....all strong Rugby areas yeah right. What about Birrong, East Hills, Narwee, Punchbowl, Homebush, Canterbury, Fort Street, Crows Nest, Epping, Normanhurst. Too many drinks in the last 40 years to remember them all but I recall the strongest rugby principled fanatics I know came from these schools not GPS.

It was more like 15+ years during which they did not play each other.
The GPS explanation was that CHS were dirty rather than too good.
At least Homebush Epping, Normanhurst still produce players: Rodzilla was a homebush product wasn't he?

 

[Oldpig]

AFL has the private school network (CAS, GPS etc) very much in their sights. Here in Sydney the Junior AFL has been running a 6 week competition at the end of the school rugby season aimed at the private school network encouraging them to put teams together. Its run on a Friday night, using the Macquarie Sports fields with 3 games running together. Short 10min 1/4s. Jumpers are supplied and so are umpires etc. Nothing to do but turn up (if you get thru the Friday night rush hr) and let the kids loose. Speaking with my sons Junior School headmaster at one game recently he made the comment that it won't be long before they will be pressured by the parent bodies to introduce AFL into the school sporting calendar. This is deliberately tacked onto the back of the rugby season to entice these boys over and use the momentum generated thru the season to keep the kids active. I know some of the kids at my sons school are moving over to AFL next yr when they start Yr7 and most probably won't come back to rugby. Parents (mums mostly) seem to think AFL is safer and their precious little Johnny is more likely to get a decent run playing AFL vs Rugby.

With 7's now an Olympic sport one would think that a competition run on a similar platform to the above would offer a continuation of the season, keep the kids & parents actively involved and promote the game to a broader audience. Maybe the ARU in association with state bodies could find a few coins to develop this. It can't be that hard if the interested parties are really interested in developing this game and promoting it to the widest possible audience.

 

[Karl]

I understand why you said it. I agree. You need to put aside all of the objections just to imagine a better scenario, but there is no way the politics and power structures and vested interests would ever permit a divestment of Rugby from GPS schools and a dissolution and re-formation of the entire Junior Rugby Club structure in the manner I outlined. I know it'll never happen, people can't see the forest for the trees most times. It was an academic exercise really.

 

[Lindommer]

Not sure if I have read these posts correctly, but it sounds like you have schoolboys playing two games of rugby a week? How does that work out for the boys? 30 minutes each way of full contact rugby once a week is enough for growing youngsters. Training Tue/Thu on top of that, maybe an extra if there is an important interschool or tournament coming up.

And quite a few boys from government and non-independent schools play league on Sundays as well. They seem to get through it all right.

 

[yourmatesam]

Aspiring regional sports stars will play for their local club/s on a Saturday/Sunday as well as the league/union/AFL midweek school based competitions as well as the respective statewide knockout competitions for the winter sports. If a kid is handy enough at 17 years old he could well be playing grade footy on top of that.

 

[Finland Fella]

This wouldn't have been St Greg's would it? Because if it is then I can tell you as an old boy myself that most of the 1st XIII if not all of them only played two games a week. On Thursdays and Saturdays for Reps. Arrive Alive (as it was known while I was there) only featured sporadically at best. In fact, for many of the guys who were borders only played one game a week. They were routinely cottoned woolled.

No, it was a little closer to the city

 

[PaarlBok]

Patto - but you're not as good looking, I heard .

The diminishing of the rugby presence in those parts you mention is appalling, isn't it?

There are many reasons for it including poor missionary work but one of the main reasons in the last 40 years has been the influence of television getting the hearts and minds of the youngsters in rugby league, a sport that is frankly better suited for TV watching to those Aussies who have a short attention span when it comes to sport. The simplicity of the rules and the lack of real set pieces with their attendant sanctions, and 2 fewer defenders on the field makes for a better experience for the couch potato.

The deterioration of the sport will become worse in Sydney. The AFL has already begun its long run in the west.

The malign influence of private schools recruiting players is deplored but the absence of star players compared to the total is not that significant compared to the effect of TV in the last 40 years.

Recruitment is not going to be stopped because there will be no enforcement and when old boys club together to pay school fees sometimes the schools don't even know; not that they want to.

What rugby union has to do in the two main rugby states is to suck it up. Let the private schools churn out the teams every week and keep the boys in the sport until they are 18 - but do the missionary work and development in the non-private schools area.

I'm no expert in the development of the sport in state schools, but it must be miniscule. I don't think we will be saying that in the near future about the AFL.

Oom Lee you should lead the charge to drive schoolboy rugby. Cant think of any Aussie who have more passion for rugby and specially schoolboy rugby in Australia. Get sponsors and get to work!

 

[Lee Grant]

There can be a lot of improvement by using the money Oz rugby has more wisely but our main problem is that we have too much competition from rugby league and Aussie rules which the RSA and NZ don't have.

With 15 professional Oz rugby league teams and 17 pro AFL teams and only 5 pro rugby union teams (and no semi pro Currie Cup or NPC) we get a small portion of the TV sporting dollar and have to use what we get wisely. All the 3N countries have soccer but I wonder how well the RSA or NZ would do with those numbers of pro teams in the other footie codes?

Maybe not as well.

But I digress: there is only so much money to use in missionary work to get young players into our code instead of the others, including targeting state schools.

There have been a lot of ideas expressed in the Schools forum but the first step is to work out how to work smarter with the money we have.

 

[teach]

AFL is starting to show up over here. They don't have a competition (at least in the lower South Island)but they have started initial efforts to raise the profile of the game.

 

[Ruggo]

There can be a lot of improvement by using the money Oz rugby has more wisely but our main problem is that we have too much competition from rugby league and Aussie rules which the RSA and NZ don't have.

With 15 professional Oz rugby league teams and 17 pro AFL teams and only 5 pro rugby union teams (and no semi pro Currie Cup or NPC) we get a small portion of the TV sporting dollar and have to use what we get wisely. All the 3N countries have soccer but I wonder how well the RSA or NZ would do with those numbers of pro teams in the other footie codes?

Maybe not as well.

But I digress: there is only so much money to use in missionary work to get young players into our code instead of the others, including targeting state schools.

There have been a lot of ideas expressed in the Schools forum but the first step is to work out how to work smarter with the money we have.

I agree with what you are saying lee. The problem as I it is we squander opportunity to raise the profile of the game. The definition of junior tends to lack clarity also me thinks as Rugby tends to focus lots of energy at the teenage level when the focuss needs to at a mini/mod level when kids are trying sport for the first time. AFL and league are picking us off because they have the jump on us in this department. It is at this base that rugby needs to be expanding across a much broader level of society. Development officers need to be requesting permission to run clinics in all schools public an private. Awearness of the local rugby club then needs to be facilitated as part of these clinics.

 

[Jnor]

AFL is starting to show up over here. They don't have a competition (at least in the lower South Island)but they have started initial efforts to raise the profile of the game.

Surely they'd have to call it something else for it to ever get off the ground - something like 'Aussies R Shit' could work :fishing

 

[yourmatesam]

Development officers need to be requesting permission to run clinics in all schools public an private. Awearness of the local rugby club then needs to be facilitated as part of these clinics.

As a former DO, I know that they do target all schools. It's not as simple as ringing the school and booking them in for some clinics and then the kids show up at their local club to play rugby. Many schools only have a small number of male teachers which makes life really hard for sport in general as this teacher is usually left to deal with league, AFL, union, soccer, cricket, basketball, touch footy, you name it.

Someone within the school has to take ownership of Rugby Union and this is where a lot of the work that the DO does falls over. Schools are more than happy for a DO to run a 5-10 week program at their school, but when it comes to signing them up for the school based competition, this is where the schools say "thanks but no thanks". Basically, they use the DO as a baby sitter so the teacher can 'supervise' the session.

It is essential for the local clubs to be involved so that the DO has contacts at each school. Ultimately if a rugby parent coaches the team for the rugby competition then all the school has to do is send a teacher along to supervise. Schools love it like that because they have nothing to do. What this does though is give the local club a face and a name so the other parents can meet the rugby coach and talk about the clubd with them. It gives them a point of contact at the local club.

The participation numbers in the Riverina are on the way up and have been for the past decade. They aren't breaking any records when compared to the numbers in western sydney, but per capita they are better figures. I think the ARU could tie things in with all their school based rugby branded products a lot better with cooperation from the local super rugby franchise.

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely they'd have to call it something else for it to ever get off the ground - something like 'Aussies R Shit' could work :fishing

Australian Rules Football will be renamed New Zealand Choice Bro Football. That should work.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

As a former DO, I know that they do target all schools. It's not as simple as ringing the school and booking them in for some clinics and then the kids show up at their local club to play rugby. Many schools only have a small number of male teachers which makes life really hard for sport in general as this teacher is usually left to deal with league, AFL, union, soccer, cricket, basketball, touch footy, you name it.

Someone within the school has to take ownership of Rugby Union and this is where a lot of the work that the DO does falls over. Schools are more than happy for a DO to run a 5-10 week program at their school, but when it comes to signing them up for the school based competition, this is where the schools say "thanks but no thanks". Basically, they use the DO as a baby sitter so the teacher can 'supervise' the session.

It is essential for the local clubs to be involved so that the DO has contacts at each school. Ultimately if a rugby parent coaches the team for the rugby competition then all the school has to do is send a teacher along to supervise. Schools love it like that because they have nothing to do. What this does though is give the local club a face and a name so the other parents can meet the rugby coach and talk about the clubd with them. It gives them a point of contact at the local club.

The participation numbers in the Riverina are on the way up and have been for the past decade. They aren't breaking any records when compared to the numbers in western sydney, but per capita they are better figures. I think the ARU could tie things in with all their school based rugby branded products a lot better with cooperation from the local super rugby franchise.

You make several good poignant points and I agree with them entirely. For any progress to be made particularly at the Primary level the active recruitment of the clubs ad volunteer coaches will be crucial to developing regular schools Rugby. Without the access to coaches and facilities any such efforts effectively fall way. For any movement to succeed the ARU and State bodies will have to provide all the necessary logistical support from DO's to coaches to facilities and even transport. Add equipment to that as well. There's always the argument that the finances don't exist to undergo such programs but I really am beginning to believe that not necessarily just that, we supposedly have adept businessmen running the game. It's a lack of willingness or dare say caring that holds any such efforts back.

Furthermore, all football codes in Australia are experiencing issues regarding the gender inequality within our teaching ranks. RL's development program counts my kid brother as a participant in their figures eve though he doesn't play the game and count his school and many others even though unlike when I was at that level there is little to no regular schools sports. Gala Days have replaced weekly sports, this year so far, my brother has only participated in 2 days and he's in the school touch and cricket 'teams'.

 

[Ruggo]

As a former DO, I know that they do target all schools. It's not as simple as ringing the school and booking them in for some clinics and then the kids show up at their local club to play rugby. Many schools only have a small number of male teachers which makes life really hard for sport in general as this teacher is usually left to deal with league, AFL, union, soccer, cricket, basketball, touch footy, you name it.

Someone within the school has to take ownership of Rugby Union and this is where a lot of the work that the DO does falls over. Schools are more than happy for a DO to run a 5-10 week program at their school, but when it comes to signing them up for the school based competition, this is where the schools say "thanks but no thanks". Basically, they use the DO as a baby sitter so the teacher can 'supervise' the session.

It is essential for the local clubs to be involved so that the DO has contacts at each school. Ultimately if a rugby parent coaches the team for the rugby competition then all the school has to do is send a teacher along to supervise. Schools love it like that because they have nothing to do. What this does though is give the local club a face and a name so the other parents can meet the rugby coach and talk about the clubd with them. It gives them a point of contact at the local club.

The participation numbers in the Riverina are on the way up and have been for the past decade. They aren't breaking any records when compared to the numbers in western sydney, but per capita they are better figures. I think the ARU could tie things in with all their school based rugby branded products a lot better with cooperation from the local super rugby franchise.

I agree with most of what you are saying. Rugby development efforts in the NT are unsatisfactory to say the least and that is where my line of thought has been generated from. I know the PE teacher at the school where my Mother works has tried getting the NTRU do conduct a clinic at the school and has never got a cooperative response. She works hard to try and offer the students a wide variety of sports to try though has now given up on rugby due to the lack of interest from the NTRU. Aussie Rules and League have always been helpful and now get the exposure within the school.

 

[yourmatesam]

I agree with most of what you are saying. Aussie Rules and League have always been helpful and now get the exposure within the school.

NT is a tough gig Ruggo. Not a traditionally rugby oriented state, AFL would easily be the number one sport in the Territory, tyranny of distance etc etc. It seems strange though that given a good local contact, the DO hasn't followed up on it.

Rugby will always play third fiddle to AFL and league in terms of support and funding for development. The AFL has got such a slick campaign going with Auskick and they do it so well that the schools just throw kids at it now, League is strong but not at the level that the AFL are at.

This is where the ARU (and DO's in general) get caught. They are up against some pretty slick opposition 'at the coal face' (it starts from Year 3 and 4 at Primary School) and they end up focussing where they can get the best return for their investment. Each DO has KPI's to reach and will concentrate on areas where they get a good response and focus on consolidating that area before branching out and focussing on building a reputation with another school/area.

The ARU are running their development programs better now, but there is still room for improvement. The best practice model is Auskick, but the ARU just don't have the money to finance such a massive program. This is where the private schools come into play and the ARU has to focus on it's core area first.

 

[Lee Grant]

Good post those yms and WCR. These are the practical matters that we punters don't know about.

A father of a well known recent star schoolboy player, and who has a connection with the Rats, is a high school teacher in the area and he was telling me something similar. He feared for the continuity of rugby at his school as he was a one man band. He couldn't see who could take up the role should he leave the school.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'd really be interested to find out exactly how much money the AFL pump into their Auskick programs annually. We need to get creative with our programs. If the USAR can win awards for their development program reaching 300,000 + kids in the last year (projected to add another 500,000 + to that next year) with a limited operating budget of around $8 million USD for all their competition structures and staff then we can figure out a means to do likewise.

 

[yourmatesam]

He couldn't see who could take up the role should he leave the school.

Thanks fellas.

Chances are, there won't be anyone to take over the role when he leaves. This was one of the most heart breaking things about being a DO, without that contact inside the school driving things for you, you're buggered.

What that comes back to though is the local clubs driving it from their own point of view too. When you combine the local club with the school teacher, there is always a point of contact at the school. If clubs are serious about recruitment, they have to get into the schools too, show their faces and tell the teachers they want their kids playing rugby and they are there to support them.

If local clubs can send an accredited coach along to the school to help out with the rugby program, they will have some pretty awesome results.

 

[teach]

Surely they'd have to call it something else for it to ever get off the ground - something like 'Aussies R Shit' could work :fishing

Nah, thats what we call the Australian Rugby Union.