The Role of Private Schools in Australian Rugby

[WorkingClassRugger]

The playing career of a professional rugby player is far too short.

The S15 contracted players should be rostered through the schools and school tournaments. They are on the payroll.

Their salaries are paid for indirectly by us, the punters who subscribe to foxtel, go to games, and buy merchandise.

Mungoballers (and Swans) attend schools in our local patch. This is typically organised by a grizzled old mungo has-been with dicky knees who the kids or parents would not know from a bar of soap. This is not an issue. Those on the mungoball payroll do what they are told. It is part of the job description.

Rugby need to follow this simple recipe, and integrate it with Village club initiatives. Many Schools would welcome an approach from ARU, as the mungoball image at certain times of the year is not one that the Education Department endorses. ARU seldom take advantage of this opportunity.

Absolutely agree. We effectively have 180 development officers being under utilised. Get these guys trained up and out in the community and schools. I know they earn their crust on the field when the seasons in its about time they earn their keep in the off season.

 

[rugby dad]

As a dad of 2 boys playing club rugby, i see the problem being the gps schools...the clubs skill the boys up from an early age ( 6-7) and breed loyalty to the club...but when they go to a gps school there club days are over.
The gps schools dont want them to play or train with there old club and instruct them to only play at school.
What is wrong with play school rugby at school, during school ? Why keep trying to distroy the clubs with there "we know best" attitude
Were do are rugby players learn the game, get the skills ???
Protect the clubs and play school games at school!

later

 

[TOCC]

I dont necessarily agree, i started off my rugby career at a club in Brisbane, then eventually attended a GPS school where i took up rugby there as well.

When i reached the senior grades(11&12) and was involved in the elite rugby squad for the school i decided to give club rugby a miss, physically i wasnt able to play 2 games every weekend anymore, in addition to that, i was already training 4 times a week, i couldn't afford to attend club rugby training as well.

1st XV rugby came first and foremost for me, club rugby dies off somewhat in the U17 and U18 age brackets anyway, a lot of the GPS kids are all in the same boat, they either focus there attention to trying to play for the 1st XV at there school or they divert there attention to studies and girls/parties instead.

However, at the end of the school, most schools have strong affiliations with respective clubs, and you will see the school culture transition over to club rugby, a lot of clubs are built on the foundations of the schools which provide the bulk of there representation, moving from GPS rugby to club rugby wasnt a big transition for me, the steepest learning curve was the drinking culture and club rituals

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

All of this will be interesting to observe when my son most likely heads off to a PSA (the WA equivalent of GPS) school in year 7. I would like to think that whatever winter sport he plays that he'll retain links with his junior club, but based on what I've seen of the private school system, I doubt it. That's a shame I think.

 

[barbarian]

It's a shame, but unavoidable sadly. Playing games in school hours is just not feasible for so many reasons. The best the clubs can do is put their games on a Friday night or Sunday and hope their boys don't get injured on Saturday. That is the only solution I reckon.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

wal

Good posts

What the league development officer did is exactly the kind of thing union needs to be doing - amongst other things..

Carnivals - does that sound hard to do? It's the type of thing that we have to do at the village level but it needs the district senior club to drive it - or at least development officers from the state unions. Maybe that kind of thing happens in rugby union districts but I doubt if we do it as often as the league guys do and we would be streets behind our eventual biggest threat - Aussie Rules.

I was up the coast during the last holidays and heard about a competition a local junior rugby club had organised between the local primary schools - a gala day. The idea of the day is to introduce 11 and 12 year olds to the game of rugby if they didn't already play on the weekend. The end result is that a number of boys that played in these days then played for the local club in the following years either the next year or somewhere down the track. The game is promoted as a safer and more fun alternative to mungoball. It has been running now for four years and presents prizemoney donated by a local business to thewinning school.

if a small country club can do something about introducing the game to local schools why can't the bigger more organised senior and village clubs in Sydney do something similar. The shortage of development officers should not be an excuse - it should the the reason teh clubs take this on themselves

http://www.nelsonbayjnrgropers.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=173566

 

[wamberal]

Many of the District clubs are already doing quite a lot of junior development, one way or the other.



When will the Great Poachers start doing the same? Or would that interfere with the important objective of winning the Shute Shield every year?

 

[HG]

I dont necessarily agree, i started off my rugby career at a club in Brisbane, then eventually attended a GPS school where i took up rugby there as well.

When i reached the senior grades(11&12) and was involved in the elite rugby squad for the school i decided to give club rugby a miss, physically i wasnt able to play 2 games every weekend anymore, in addition to that, i was already training 4 times a week, i couldn't afford to attend club rugby training as well.

1st XV rugby came first and foremost for me, club rugby dies off somewhat in the U17 and U18 age brackets anyway, a lot of the GPS kids are all in the same boat, they either focus there attention to trying to play for the 1st XV at there school or they divert there attention to studies and girls/parties instead.

However, at the end of the school, most schools have strong affiliations with respective clubs, and you will see the school culture transition over to club rugby, a lot of clubs are built on the foundations of the schools which provide the bulk of there representation, moving from GPS rugby to club rugby wasnt a big transition for me, the steepest learning curve was the drinking culture and club rituals

One 100% agree. I have had 3 boys through private school and they all played club footy. They only stopped playing club when in the First 15 as playing 2 games at that level was to much and training took up 4 days a week. After the school season the club rugby starts up again with a post school comp (Brisbane can't speak for down south). However quite a few of the boys don't play in this as they are completing their study. It all then changes at the end of the year when the boys finish school as the clubs are now in the market for their colts players for the next year. My eldest received 3 letters from different clubs offering him the opportunity to play. This is or was quite common (2006) and many of his team mates from his school and others received letters.
Most clubs have some sort of association with the major rugby playing schools (GPS and AIC) in Brisbane.

 

[Baldric]

Do NZ and RSA play rugby in every school pretty much be it Private or State

In RSA rugby is played in all schools which are historically "white" schools.
Traditionally Saturday morning sport is also compulsory.

 

[PaarlBok]

In RSA rugby is played in all schools which are historically "white" schools.
Traditionally Saturday morning sport is also compulsory.

Not 100% Baldric, in the Western Cape specially Boland most historical coloured schools plays rugby. In the EC you'll find some historically black schools also playing rugby. Anyway these schools have a well set rugby culture. They dont practise rugby in school time (08h00 to 14h00). Teachers at most of these schools have to coach at least one winter and one summer sport. You dont get much if any youth teams at our clubs, starting from U19 age group.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Cross post from http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/5780-School-sporting-scholarships?p=308321#post308321

Light - your story about the Samoan boy was properly touching and I agree that even self-serving actions can nontheless create collateral benefits for deserving people. I'm a TSS old boy. There was very little in the way of importing talent on scholarships back then (late 80's), but that didn't mean there wasn't a relentless hunt on and pressure to identify and develop the best kids in the school or that all prestige and position for students flowed from the level at which they acheived on a pitch, a field or in a pool or boat. They got so much rope academically it wasn't funny, and it later hung or tripped them after school when the vast majority found their sports ability took them no-where in later life. I remember how our soccer team was treated - third rate citizens at best. Rugby, or Rowing was the epicenter. Swimming maybe, but barely. Athletics if it was a glamour event like the sprints, but otherwise not on the radar.

So, with Junior Rugby, on this topic, I have a crazy idea. Just for a second put aside "that can't or won't happen because [insert]" thoughts and arguments and imagine a situation as if it already existed and ask yourself if it wouldn't be better than what we have now in terms of the way a School is meant to work, the fanatical ascendency and graft of GPS Rugby and where it's inevitiably heading and the overall good of the game in Australia.

What if GPS Schools "divested" their Rugby programs altogether and we saw a massive restructuring of School and Club Rugby such that:
- All Rugby was played through Clubs
- Schools divested their Rugby Programs as described below to an "attached club"
- existing Clubs were dissolved and totally restructured in terms of membership, funding, facilities, admin, staffing, etc
- Each Rugby Playing School (GPS, TAS, CAS etc) was essentially "attached" to a newly formed club and its students played exclusively for that Club but the club was also open to any player from an "unattached" or non-rugby playing school - eg state schools without a rugby program (or league schools) on a Catchment Area basis. Forget what these clubs would be called, it's immaterial.
- a basic "core" level of funding came from membership, the ARU and the attached school for that club
- Individual Club funding was controlled in much the same way as a salary cap - ie one club couldn't generate disproportionate advantage through a wealthy member base
- individual club funding initiayives that exceeded the Cap would be applied to a centrally administered fund that was used for "whole of Game" initiatives where all clubs had equal access like better admin and refereeing, equipment, support structures, elite talent development programs, etc

Imagine how that would move Rugby forward in this country in an egalitarian and efficient way that encouraged access to the game at all levels from all sources.

Just shut your eyes and imagine it already existed and had always been that way. Imagine the increased community engagement Rugby would have and the contribution these clubs could make in their areas with the support of their attached school and the ARU. What a great Community involvement for these otherwise cloistered and elite schools that all claim to have community and other programs designed to ensure they contribute to and engage with the broader aspects of society in their areas. The boys still get to play Rugby with their mates from a young age, we still basically have a School Team to root for, but so much more. Rugby is very suited to this structure compared to other sports for a range of reasons.

After school the kids can play for whatever Senior Club they like and they would essentially be unchanged, except for the separation of the Juniors. Junior Clubs could be allocated as feeders to certain senior clubs based on various criteria (prior association, proximity etc).

Thoughts?

 

[Bowside]

I've said it many times before, but I will say it again, I think the way forward is through reaching out and strengthening the game in non-rugby schools, rather than weakening the game in traditionally strong rugby schools that have done so much for the code over the last 100 or so years.

I want to see rugby played in every school, it just makes logistical sense, as well as fostering a self sufficient form of funding (old boys network).

Clubs struggle enough as it is, I say let the village clubs focus solely on the little ones and the senior solely on colts and grade. High schools can pick up the slack in the middle.

 

[teach]

The issue with clubs having control over the teams is practise times. Here in Otago, and likely other parts of the country, we have resisted having the clubs take over school boy rugby. The clubs have them till High School. Typically up to U13.
The clubs want to run the teams, but their coaches aren't available till later in the day, after they have finished work. So we would have 14year olds not finishing to maybe 7 at night. At school, we can also bully and cajole those teenage boys who are discovering girls and cars and not really fussed about playing.
The schools do have club affiliations. We are lucky that we have a rugby club across the road, so we get access to all their facilities, training field and gear.
The rugby league season in Dunedin consisted of about 5 games, involving 4 schools and 4 teams, after rugby had finished.

 

[Bowside]

The issue with clubs having control over the teams is practise times. Here in Otago, and likely other parts of the country, we have resisted having the clubs take over school boy rugby. The clubs have them till High School. Typically up to U13.
The clubs want to run the teams, but their coaches aren't available till later in the day, after they have finished work. So we would have 14year olds not finishing to maybe 7 at night. At school, we can also bully and cajole those teenage boys who are discovering girls and cars and not really fussed about playing.
The schools do have club affiliations. We are lucky that we have a rugby club across the road, so we get access to all their facilities, training field and gear.
The rugby league season in Dunedin consisted of about 5 games, involving 4 schools and 4 teams, after rugby had finished.

See the kiwis have got it right with this system.

Much easier to get blokes to play rugby for school than it is for club.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

I live in victoria and i don't know what goes on in other states but this is my view. The schools here that play Rugby are all private and the main competition is a merger between the APS (the traditional schools like Xavier, Grammar and Scotch College) and a couple of AGSV schools (wannabee traditional school like Trinity Grammar). However, unlike what I've heard of NSW and QLD, in Victoria junior club rugby is played at a significantly better quality, with better facilities and for twice as long as the school season.

Schools will ensure that their students will play for them on saturday mornings and make little exceptions, even if the competition is substandard. Another problem is that club and School rugby is played at exactly the same time which drives everyone mental as it means you either have to rush across town to get another game or you can't play until school season is finished. Both AFL and Football play there club games on Sunday so school kids can play both and i would of thought that rugby kids could do the same bloody thing.

I'm finishing at Trinity this year and had a miserable time with their rugby system as the whole set up is terrible due to all the school sport funding going to afl, hence resulting in poor coaching and play standards and a total lack of depth in school sides and total drop kicks being played in 1st XV because there is no one else available (last year a full strength 1st XV who that year would win the schools premiership struggled to beat Box Hill U16). i would now recommend that unless kids go to a school like St Kevins, Scotch or Melbourne Grammar (the schools that take it seriously) that they pick a bludge sport at school that isn't taken seriously and doesn't require them to turn up and just go and play Club Rugby on Saturdays instead.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

See the kiwis have got it right with this system.

Much easier to get blokes to play rugby for school than it is for club.

Particularly if your cars and girls are as they are in Otago

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Cross post from http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/5780-School-sporting-scholarships?p=308321#post308321

So you dont like my sounds great wont happen, eh?
I have written at length and often to the ARU/NSWRU trying to get something along the lines of your suggestion, with a few differences, discussed... let alone implemented. I get polite "we are always looking at ways of.....".
The purpose of my post was to show that I think you are on the right track but to caution at the futility of it.
Frankly, the more the NSW GPS schools pump into their non-scholarships for rugby players the further we get away from expanding the player base: it only serves to concentrate the participation even further.
The reason the future of this process has to be doubted is that there are, maybe 1500 kids at each of the GPS and CAS schools. There are 8 GPS, schools of whom 2 are not really competitive, but the writing is on the wall (as others have noted) to 2 others. The CAS is 6(?) and there are non competitive schools there. Bear in mind that the 1500 in each school are spread across 6 years. There are then CCC and ISA etc - I dont know much about them I confess.
Double it for Qld - a generous estimate.
Its a tiny pool of players......which is why we permit imports to s15.
If you want a bigger pool you have to involve kids from outside the school system that play the game: there seems very little will to do that - i think that is because of the ARU were to address the need for an alternative structure to GPS etc that would cost them money. The return would be long term and JON is off in 2 years so there's no will to do anything about it.
I didn't mean to be a smart arse by saying great idea wont happen - I have been ground down by the indifference of the ARU to the long term needs of the game.

 

[teach]

Not sure if I have read these posts correctly, but it sounds like you have school boys playing two games of rugby a week? How does that work out for the boys?
30 minutes each way of full contact rugby once a week is enough for growing youngsters. training tues/thurs on top of that, maybe an extra if there is an important interschool or tournament coming up.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not sure if I have read these posts correctly, but it sounds like you have school boys playing two games of rugby a week? How does that work out for the boys?
30 minutes each way of full contact rugby once a week is enough for growing youngsters. training tues/thurs on top of that, maybe an extra if there is an important interschool or tournament coming up.

correct - some play friday nights with travel of up to (some may do more) 1.25 hours either way and then again on Saturday. Others play Sunday when, at least, they avoid the peak hour of the Friday night.
some of the school ('view I think: http://www.riverview.nsw.edu.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=88&Itemid=242) have rules about when and in what circumstances you can play outside school

 

[Bowside]

Yeah its madness to have them play more than 1 game a week, and I think this contributes to the drop out rate, especially in the later grades.