The positives & failings from Bledisloe 1 2011

[Slim 293]

thats the opinion of someone who prefers the conservative approach.... but there is also this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyfe6Qv4rw

There appeared to be a player in position to take that pass...

But you're right, Cooper should be applauded for throwing a reckless flick pass that nearly led to an AB try and resulted in a 5m scrum.

Brilliant. Genius.

 

[TOCC]

jeez Slim, you need a hug..

like i said, you have your opinion, and we have ours.. move on

 

[barbarian]

There was also a chance JOC (James O'Connor) would have caught the ball with the opportunity to start a break back down field...

This is my real problem with that pass. JOC (James O'Connor) was running back to get behind QC (Quade Cooper), and was in no position to get a pass. When Quade passed that flick to AFaingaa on the Reds line against the Blues that time it was great because the pass was on, Ant was definitely in a better position than Quade. But JOC (James O'Connor) wasn't, and only would have been smashed as Quade would have been. Quade should have taken the tackle, there is no doubt in my mind.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Not when you throw a blind flick pass to nobody...

And it wasn't the only awful pass Cooper threw tonight... but it was probably the most stupid...

Agree Slim. IMO people shouldn't really be overly surprised by some of the misfired passes, poor kicks because those things were seen in Coopers game during this years S15 and even in the test vs the Boks.

Its what appears to come as part of the package. I certainly don't mind Coopers game and readily acknowledge the fantastic plays and good structure he's displayed this year, but those other elements were also evident.

IMO many of the concerns people have identified in his game tonight had very little to do with the pack performance. Just saw a play where everyone is going forward after multiple pick n go's and all the backs are in motion and Cooper throws a skip out pass that goes over the head of a player an then behind the player outside of him.

He had a poor game, but he is still a good player and young enough to try and fix these things.

 

[TOCC]

oh well, no amount of debating or arguing is going to convince the other parties to change there opinion, so no point lingering on it

 

[Slim 293]

This is my real problem with that pass. JOC (James O'Connor) was running back to get behind QC (Quade Cooper), and was in no position to get a pass. When Quade passed that flick to AFaingaa on the Reds line against the Blues that time it was great because the pass was on, Ant was definitely in a better position than Quade. But JOC (James O'Connor) wasn't, and only would have been smashed as Quade would have been. Quade should have taken the tackle, there is no doubt in my mind.

Indeed.

It was a panic pass to nobody.

 

[cyclopath]

Ok, enough, I think everyone gets everyone else's take on this pass.
Next!
There's plenty to discuss!

 

[Jay]

Agree Slim. IMO people shouldn't really be overly surprised by some of the misfired passes, poor kicks because those things were seen in Coopers game during this years S15 and even in the test vs the Boks.

Its what appears to come as part of the package. I certainly don't mind Coopers game and readily acknowledge the fantastic plays and good structure he's displayed this year, but those other elements were also evident.

IMO many of the concerns people have identified in his game tonight had very little to do with the pack performance. Just saw a play where everyone is going forward after multiple pick n go's and all the backs are in motion and Cooper throws a skip out pass that goes over the head of a player an then behind the player outside of him.

He had a poor game, but he is still a good player and young enough to try and fix these things.

It's true the ball he was getting wasn't always great, but it's also true that the AB's defence was shutting him down a fair bit. They weren't buying his stutter/drift meaning his passes which usually go to guys in a half gap were going to guys with a defender on them. I don't wanna say they've worked him out, cause he's still capable of some outrageous plays, but his plan A wasn't working tonight.

 

[ChargerWA]

Did anyone else see the Kap O Panga as a good sign........ that we had them worried enough to warrant the nasty Haka? Unfortunately they had little need to be. We are still mentally subservient to them.

I espescially have a concern we will never see the best of QC (Quade Cooper) against the AB's. He grew up idolising the black jersey, and I worry he has a little voice in the back of his head which tells him they are better than the team he plays for. That's not to say he is to blame for tonight's loss, just a vibe I get.

 

[Tangawizi]

Positives for me from tonight's match:

1. We've had a look at Eden Park prior to the World Cup so know what to expect in our big matches there in September & October, and
2. We play again in 7 days time.

More seriously, scrum went well enough. Line out was ok too - I actually thought Keven got away with a few that weren't at all straight tonight. And Digby showed he knows how to play.

Disappointingly, the performance of the AB's, combined with the rest of our play failed to instil a "deposit of belief" in my "The Wallabies will win the World Cup Belief Bank" account. In fact, it made quite a large withdrawal from that account.

But back to positive No. 2 - the rolls on, showtime again in 7 days. Has the touring squad been determined prior to tonight's match given the quick turnaround?

 

[RedsHappy]

...I espescially have a concern we will never see the best of QC (Quade Cooper) against the AB's. He grew up idolising the black jersey, and I worry he has a little voice in the back of his head which tells him they are better than the team he plays for. That's not to say he is to blame for tonight's loss, just a vibe I get.

CWA - I think if you watch many elements of his play v ABs in HKG last year - where he performed much better than he did tonight - you will be less worried on the front you mention above.

 

[ChargerWA]

CWA - I think if you watch many elements of his play v ABs in HKG last year - where he performed much better than he did tonight - you will be less worried on the front you mention above.

I'm not saying he can't have a good game againts them, but against the AB's he may be more likely to have an errant game. We all shrug off his mercurial form good and bad, as the way he plays it is bound to happen sometimes. It would just be a worry if he tended to have more errant games against our #1 opponent.





Edit: I think I need a new username now, you just successfully abbreviated me to the Country Womens Assosciation

 

[Grevious]

As an aussie living in NZ Im soooo disappointed with the Wallabies tonight Does anyone really think ROBBIE DEANS gives a toss about Aus.Its a set up. Ive coached under 13s that had a better game plan.The amount of quality players that Deans has and what happens we lose AGAIN Its time to sack Deans and for the Aussie Union to go cap in hand to the Reds coach and ask for HELP.Kiwis think that the Wallabies are a JOKE Wake up Australia get real and get rid of DEANS he is a KIWI through & through & is undermining Aussie Rugby

 

[Groucho]

Did anyone else see the Kap O Panga as a good sign........ that we had them worried enough to warrant the nasty Haka? Unfortunately they had little need to be. We are still mentally subservient to them.

I espescially have a concern we will never see the best of QC (Quade Cooper) against the AB's. He grew up idolising the black jersey, and I worry he has a little voice in the back of his head which tells him they are better than the team he plays for. That's not to say he is to blame for tonight's loss, just a vibe I get.

That's rather condescending, don't you think?

 

[RedsHappy]

ChargerWA[/B]....Edit: I think I need a new username now, you just successfully abbreviated me to the Country Womens Assosciation

 

[ACT Crusader]

Did anyone else see the Kap O Panga as a good sign........ that we had them worried enough to warrant the nasty Haka? Unfortunately they had little need to be. We are still mentally subservient to them.

I espescially have a concern we will never see the best of QC (Quade Cooper) against the AB's. He grew up idolising the black jersey, and I worry he has a little voice in the back of his head which tells him they are better than the team he plays for. That's not to say he is to blame for tonight's loss, just a vibe I get.

I find this an extremely strange post Charger. The "nasty" haka? It's just a different haka to Ka Mate, that's all. And subservience seems a bit OTT.

And on Cooper, he played schoolboys for OZ against NZ several times, played age group for OZ, plays for an OZ provincial side that has a rich tradition, and has played several tests now for OZ over the past couple of years. I think he would be taken aback by such an insinuation given what his rugby career has been all about to date.

 

[Joe Blow]

Positives
The set piece was good and the pack really stood up. We had the lions share of possession in the first half and let several good try scoring opportunities slip.
Higgers and Vickerman showed enough when they came on to be considered as starters, particularly Higgers who made some valuable yards through the middle and was heavily involved at the breakdown.
Has Diggers picked up a yard of pace? he was a real handful.

Negatives
JOC (James O'Connor) left his kicking boots at home.
The Wallabies were not patient enough as they had a bucket load of possession but kept turning over the ball or kicking it away rather than protecting it.
McCalman was completely anonymous again and surely has run out of chances.
Elsoms running style is too upright and he presents a better target than MMM did when he came onto the test scene. He is only good when way out wide but is totally ineffective because of this in the tight. Higgers on the other hand went straight through their pack a couple of times.
QC (Quade Cooper) had a shocker. Was probably hyped up for this one and the pressure got to him. The AB defensive line being offside all night(and not pinged once) didn't help his cause. It will not happen often(the shocker I mean).

All in all not too bad and I think the ABs will be concerned that they were unable to steamroll our pack.
The signs are good for us despite the loss.
Dan Carter was the difference on the night....pure and simple.

 

[ACT Crusader]

All in all not too bad and I think the ABs will be concerned that they were unable to steamroll our pack.
The signs are good for us despite the loss.
Dan Carter was the difference on the night....pure and simple.

"ABs concerned that they were unable to steamroll..."

What is that based on? I think the ABs are mainly concerned about winning test matches. They want to play well, yes, and I'm sure the forwards want to do all they can to provide the best opportunities available for their attack, but I highly doubt they think going into a test match vs OZ that they are going to "steamroll".

 

[waratahjesus]

the forwards set piece work was alright tonight and deserves mention, the main problem remains the breakdown where they just seem to lack that extra 10% that comes from wanting it, not from the training paddock, its like where playing to a formula rather than actually having a crack at times.

i think Pat Mccabe and ant are 2 into one for mine. they cant both exist in the 22. Berrick Barnes needs to join the squad. Not having a go at him as i believe we cant wint he cup without him, but for Coopers maturity he still collapses at times, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale are both flashy players as well that suffer fromt he same problem. When things arnt going well there is a sense of youth and daring that makes them believe they can come up with miracle plays in situations where there not needed, both in the samoa game and All blacks game now our backline has been rushed and instead of playing field position we have taken it or tried to throw stupid passes, We need someone who can step in calm things down do the one out work and allow quade to take 5 minutes to compose himself. Its not a knock, its just needed, sometimes having 7-8 phases of one out runners and pick and drives with a kick to the corner steadies a team and allows it the opportunity to throw the miracle pass when its on. we never steadied tonight, we tried to score off every play instead.

 

[ChargerWA]

That's rather condescending, don't you think?

Not really. I don't believe i'm superior to the players, just calling it as I see it.

I find this an extremely strange post Charger. The "nasty" haka? It's just a different haka to Ka Mate, that's all. And subservience seems a bit OTT.

The last time the AB's did the Kapo O Panga to the Wallabies was after the hand bag ad incident, the general consensus at the time was that the AB's felt like they had been disrespected. The nasty bit is just a reference to the throat slitting motion, which last time had everyone in a froth. To have it dragged out tonight made me think there was more going on in the AB's camp than I first thought. Maybe a response to the over confidence in general of the Australian rugby populous.

As for subservience, in some dictionaries it is defined as the trait of being willing to yield to the will of another person or a superior force etc., I think it sums up perfectly what happened. We have the players, but we lack the mental toughness to put it all together. In the end we just end up looking like the best players Australia has to offer trotted out and thoroughly confused by a game plan entitled "play what's in front of you".

And on Cooper, he played schoolboys for OZ against NZ several times, played age group for OZ, plays for an OZ provincial side that has a rich tradition, and has played several tests now for OZ over the past couple of years. I think he would be taken aback by such an insinuation given what his rugby career has been all about to date.

I'm not saying he does it on purpose and is some secret deep cover NZ agent, i'm just saying he may be more susceptible to it than others due to his heritage of being born in NZ. I still want him in the 10 jersey, and realise without him, we would be well and truly stuffed. Only time will tell.