Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
And we don't want centres seagulling on the wing.
The positives & failings from Bledisloe 1 2011
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And we don't want centres seagulling on the wing.
J
Jay
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Well, I'm fairly well endowed but even I don't need to use both hands.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
Right, thanks for that, Gagger.
This is going to be long enough, but, the way I do this is: I do each scrum in turn, refer to the times on that clip, second by second. It's heavy on the pause button, but it's worth it.
Scrum 1.
Preset; Alexander is aiming in on Mealamu.
0:00 (it's running, but not up to the first second); Engage. Both dipping down. Alexander is boring, and is bound on the sleeve of Crockett's jersey. His elbow is up, which means he's pushing down. Penalty to the ABs. However, Crockett has missed his bind. If he doesn't try to get it up, penalty Aus; if he does try, and Alexander doesn't let him, penalty ABs again.
0:01 - Look at Moore's bind, because it's interesting. He's almost broken the bind. So far as I can see, he's going right on Mealamu, while Alexander is going left onto him in a pincer. Alexander is still boring, still bound on the jersey sleeve; penalty ABs.
0:01 - Alexander is still on the sleeve, and pushing down. He's also aiming down and in. It's a classic TH drop. Joubert buys it.
Edit: 0:01-0:02. Didn't notice this first time around, but - as soon as it's dropped, Alexander whips his bind off Crockett's arm like a scalded cat. He knew he was dropping it.
0:03 to 0:05 Drive after it drops. That's deliberate, and it's fucking nasty, because that shit is dangerous. And it is deliberate, because Alexander resets his right foot, and drives again off it. He knows what he's doing, there.
Penalty against Alexander for boring, and for binding on the arm and bringing it down. Penalty against Crockett for not getting the bind up. On balance, penalty against Alexander if any. The correct thing to do, given both sides, is that it should have been reset, and Alexander told to keep the bind up. Joubert doesn't reset, unfortunately, so he got it wrong.
Scrum 2.
0:08 Crouch. Now, if you look at his head angle, Owen Franks is already aiming straight in on Moore. It also looks like a pincer with Mealamu coming right on him.
0:10 - the pause. Now, draw an imaginary line down the middle of the two front rows, look on the far side, and check the positions. Weepu is NOT standing on that line; he's standing closer to the Aussie side. His right boot, which you can see through the tunnel, is roughly on the midline. Whoever ends up on the far side of that line has won the hit over that side. Weepu is a good guide; if the ABs end up level with him, they've won the hit. If you want a static reference, Crockett is level with the "I" of the Investec logo on the pitch, Weepu with the left leg of the "n".
0:11 - Engage. Crockett wins the hit, and is maybe a foot, eighteen inches up; he is now slightly ahead of where Weepu - who hasn't moved - is. Crockett is now level, maybe slightly ahead of, the left leg of the Investec "n".
0:12 - 0:13 - ball in (I'd love to see if that feed was straight, mind). Franks is re-setting his leg to continue the drive.
0:15 - scrum ends. Crockett is now level with the gap between the two legs of the Investec "n".
The ABs won the hit, and made ground. Not much, but they went forward, and you can measure it against the static markers on the pitch.
Scrum 3.
0:16 - engage. Now, here there IS a penalty against the ABs, and it's missed. Franks binds onto Kepu's jersey, right in front of the TJ. Should have been called, and it wasn't. Poor refereeing; consistent, but it's an elementary miss.
0:17 - Now, look at the number on Mealamu's back, and then look at Alexander. Mealamu is angling to the top of the screen; he's going right, in and under Alexander. Now, look at Alexander; his right shoulder is coming up, so you can see the "3" on his back plainly (compare with Kepu and Crockett, whose numbers you can't see at all). When that happens to a TH, he's in trouble; the hooker and LH are working together to both get under him and pop him.
0:18 - the drive goes on on the AB LH side. Look at the bind between Moore and Alexander; they're at full stretch, because Mealamu and Crockett are splitting Alexander off. It's static on the AB TH side - Kaino hasn't moved his right hand on the pitch - but Franks is using the bind to twist Kepu.
0:19 - Alexander is now fully stood up. He's gone. However, I will give the Aussie scrum this; they react. They go left shoulder, to try and take it away from that side and onto the left, to try and spin it around. It spins around Kaino, as they try to march around it. Alexander is completely popped by Mealamu and Crockett by this stage, and they're up on that side.
ABs did a pincer-pop deep in their own 22, and executed it perfectly. They come away, and clear their lines. Contrast this, btw, with the scrum not far from that in the second half, and how the Aussies deal with it.
Scrum 4.
0:24 - crouch. The ten is your mark for the mid-line. Aussie ball. Genia is right on the ten.
0:25 - engage. Now, at this stage, Crockett's back is flat. Watch Alexander's arse; it doesn't move. He's not going forward, he's not trying to get over the line and win the hit; he's dropping this. He's already pointing down, bound on the arm, and using Crockett's momentum against him.
0:25 - Alexander is bound on the arm, again, elbow up, arse up, hinged in the middle and driving straight down. Crockett is well over the mid-line, but has been dropped by Alexander. Penalty goes to the Aussies, but it should be the other way. That said, it was straight out of the Bill Young Playbook, and smoothly executed.
Scrum 5
This is the "right shoulder" one. To get a right shoulder, the Aussies have to go forward on the side nearest the camera, so it'll be angled towards the camera. The static reference points are Pocock is just touching the cross-line for the ten, and the AB second rows' arses in line with the ten. If they end up ahead of that, it's no right shoulder.
0:30 Engage.
0:33. Now, look at it by now. Crockett is driving up at 45 degrees; and the AB second rows have their boots on the ten. It's angled back from the camera.
Whatever the commentator claims, that's not a right shoulder. That's losing the right shoulder and going back on your own ball.
A
antipodean
Guest
Excellent analysis - easily among the best I've read.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Considering it was Jubert who effectively ended Baxters career for the same bind it is a fair call to say that the 'arm' bind is a favourite of his. He was right there and saw Crocket at fault for something many Kiwis said was the reason he wouldn't get another ABs jersey after his run in 2009?
In any event I will call the Kiwi defense, all THPs bind similarly until told not to, and refer you to the Justice for Al Baxter video on this site to's show that this bind is ishii ndeed windspread and hence as with Mcheat, ah sorry Mcaw, he didn't get penalised so he is just a better player than Crocket. Perhaps he may be the new Myth?
In any event I will call the Kiwi defense, all THPs bind similarly until told not to, and refer you to the Justice for Al Baxter video on this site to's show that this bind is ishii ndeed windspread and hence as with Mcheat, ah sorry Mcaw, he didn't get penalised so he is just a better player than Crocket. Perhaps he may be the new Myth?
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
The attached screenshot is from Gagger's video, scrum 4, 0:25, commented on above.
Crockett's back is flat, level with his hips. He's binding legally. Alexander's shoulders are way below his hips, he's not moved from the engage, is bound on Crockett's arm, elbow up and driving down and is clearly collapsing it.
This is all less than two metres from Joubert - who pinged Crockett.
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Bullrush
John Hipwell (52)
Al Baxter, McCaw, Woodcock....who the fuck are we talking about again?!?!
I, for one, say 'good on ya' to Alexander for getting one over Joubert and Crockett. Exactly like McCaw, Alexander doesn't have the whistle in his mouth and he's just trying not to get too 'munched' at every scrum. The ABs - and Crockett - need to get smarter and beat him. Maybe McCaw should have had a word to Joubert or something but obviously when the other Franks came on, the Wallaby scrum looked to be losing again.
I'm still impressed at Thomond's analysis and in-depth knowledge of what's happening at the scrum. I think he should have a 'regular slot' each week and break-down a few of the scrum for us.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Read what was posted. Crocket like Baxter has form for what he was done for. Joubert blew the 'first offence or the one one he thought contributed most to the collapse. As I like Kaplan as much as Joubert as Ref. And dont really rate Alexander I can say this from the POV that I would actually like to agree on both levels, but it just isnt so.
I am much more concerned as the disgracrful policing of the off side line and so many knock ons and forward passes being missed this year. It does not bode well for the RWC if this isn't fixed. Your point is just a variable in the ongoing lottery of the scrum that wont be fixed until the removal of the power hit.
I am much more concerned as the disgracrful policing of the off side line and so many knock ons and forward passes being missed this year. It does not bode well for the RWC if this isn't fixed. Your point is just a variable in the ongoing lottery of the scrum that wont be fixed until the removal of the power hit.
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
Thomond, I got as far as 1 second in before I disagreed with you. I see Crocket with his hand on the ground and fully "hinged" because he missed his bind. Alexander (and the whole wobb scrum for that matter) is still fully bound and formed, except Alexander is following Crocket down because Crocket missed his bind. Penalty Aus and the rest of the scrum analysis for this scrum is redundant and supposition.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
In fairness to Alexander, I can't disagree with that. If your opposite number has you, you do what you have to to survive; and if you can fool the ref, fair play to you. It's all part of the job.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
The attached screenshots are in sequence. You can see Crockett is legal on the engage; you can then see the bind on the arm, with the elbow up; then the arm straightening and driving down; and you can see Alexander whipping away the bind once it's down. As I said; penalty against both. Reset.
Edit - Finally!
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B
Blob
Guest
Do you? I see Crockett attempting to bind on Alexander's side, Alexander binding on Crockett's arm, Crockett's bind slip, and Richie with his hand on the ground. What else do you see?
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
Incidentally, if Alexander does go under the radar on this with refs, it could be very useful for you. I've carried out this exercise on the Irish scrum in the past, and the single biggest issue is Cian Healy on the engage. If he gets any bit of bend in his back, he carries on bending, and the domino from right to left down the scrum starts. If Alexander can do that to Healy by getting on the arm, it would do a lot of damage.
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
My eyes must be playing tricks on me as it looks very much like Alexander has bound behind crockets arm on his torso. Alexander lets go of the bind because wild is about to eat dirt and he doesn't want to do the same.
On a different note I have no idea why alexander is our starting THP, when kepu is better than him. All I can think of is deans is hoping slipper i healthy and can e slotted back in.
On a different note I have no idea why alexander is our starting THP, when kepu is better than him. All I can think of is deans is hoping slipper i healthy and can e slotted back in.
B
Blob
Guest
It's okay to acknowledge that Alexander was cheating. It's okay. You'll live.
For mine I say Crockett deserved to get penalised and subbed since he wasn't up to dealing the Alexander's tricks. Hopefully it's a lesson learned for him.
For mine I say Crockett deserved to get penalised and subbed since he wasn't up to dealing the Alexander's tricks. Hopefully it's a lesson learned for him.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
He's bound on the sleeve. You can see it absolutely perfectly in photos 2 and 3, especially 3.
As I said; penalty against Crockett for not trying to get the bind back up; penalty against Alexander for binding on the arm and collapsing. Reset.
Edit; and, as I said, Franks was also binding illegally later.
Bullrush
John Hipwell (52)
Now this one does bug me. Unlike the scrum where it can be hard to know what's going on (unless you're Thomond!), how f**kn hard is it to see forward passes and knock-ons. There were a number missed on Sat on both sides.
Of course, I'd say most AB fans have issues with forward passes not being called
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