The Israel Folau saga

[cyclopath]

The confidential letter to RA is on TWF.com.au forum discussion thread post 365.

https://twf.com.au/showthread.php?t=40694&page=25&p=468051#post468051

I can't get over the irony that someone high up in RA posts on TWF forii (Thanks, Dismal for that neologism, I love it).

 

[Gnostic]

Let’s face it, he has proven himself to not be a man of his word throughout this process. I doubt that he can expect much from this point on.

I said at the very start - the mark of the fundamentalist mind is hypocrisy. I am sure he has somehow completely reconciled what I and I majority of others regard as a pretty clear cut situation of a broken promise, or otherwise known as a lie.

However from my POV this is irrelevant, RA's primary responsibility was always to have in place systems to manage its people. We are where we are because its systems are not robust and it has acted without the professionalism it espoused in the last media release. The long history shows the clear pattern of behaviour unfortunately. The hypocrisy and self interest of people is one of the fundamental facts in business, and unless that business never intends dealing with customers that are human it needs to have systems in place to deal with this fact and not just rely on their "goodwill".

 

[Gnostic]

I've missed you Cyclo.

In a brotherly manner only.

 

[Rebelsfan]

I would have thought that this fact is something that a good barrister could make a bit of impact with. "Could you read the quote to us from your Bible, Mr Folau?" "Mumble mumble mumble". " The word "hell" does not seem to be in that reading. Is that something you made up?"

It is also bloody obvious that if he was really interested in reaching out to people he could have talked about what was really in the reading. The Kingdom of God, the meaning of which might be a bit too nuanced to use as part of an insult.

If hell is made up, then what is the fuss?

 

[Gnostic]

If people have 30 minutes to listen to a podcast or watch a youtube clip I seriously recommend this as very applicable to this situation, not just in terms of its impacts on RA the organisation and the broader game but in terms of our society.

For those who think and at times have posted that I am an arch conservative, I would point out a lot of my view points come from the fertile minds of what many people regard as the left.

https://www.thersa.org/events/2012/09/the-power-to-act-a-new-angle-on-our-toughest-problems-

or

 

[The Honey Badger]

But you can't have it both ways. If you defend Folau's right to make statements, albeit based on writings from some period over the past 1500-2000 years, that clearly are offensive to some people, you cannot claim the high ground that your beliefs cannot be questioned / ridiculed or indeed, offended. Do you see how it works?

He's Back

 

[Kenny Powers]

However from my POV this is irrelevant, RA's primary responsibility was always to have in place systems to manage its people. We are where we are because its systems are not robust and it has acted without the professionalism it espoused in the last media release. The long history shows the clear pattern of behaviour unfortunately. The hypocrisy and self interest of people is one of the fundamental facts in business, and unless that business never intends dealing with customers that are human it needs to have systems in place to deal with this fact and not just rely on their "goodwill".

Well said if they didn't see this coming with Folau, it's poor management. If reports are correct that Raelene tried to get him to sign a social media addendum to his contract a matter of weeks after signing of the contract, she has no right to hold a CEO position in any organisation in Australia.

Previous to that the Beale affair, was the inevitable outcome of the behaviour of others, that ARU management should have been aware of and acted on. Doesn't excuse Beale, but was never going to end well and yes you have to read between the lines given the poor state of rugby journalism in Australia.

Also the reason why nothing was ever leaked from that Code of Conduct hearing.

 

[formerflanker]

But you can't have it both ways. If you defend Folau's right to make statements, albeit based on writings from some period over the past 1500-2000 years, that clearly are offensive to some people, you cannot claim the high ground that your beliefs cannot be questioned / ridiculed or indeed, offended. Do you see how it works?

Clearly Australia needs an immediate introduction of a US-style first amendment where free speech is guaranteed.
Then RA and Israel could come to a peaceful resolution which includes him playing rugby for Australia. Now.

 

[formerflanker]

From The Telegraph:
Israel Folau’s former teammates have finally snapped under the huge emotional toll his anti-gay posts have had on the game they love.
.......the players have finally spoken up about the price they’ve paid during the season from hell.




Looks like the PR machine has sprung into action.

 

[James Pettifer]

From The Telegraph:
Israel Folau’s former teammates have finally snapped under the huge emotional toll his anti-gay posts have had on the game they love.
...the players have finally spoken up about the price they’ve paid during the season from hell.




Looks like the PR machine has sprung into action.

Quite possibly. Of course most of them will be hoping that his legal challenge fails miserably as if it does send RA under, then they would all be out of a job. At best there would be a few million less in the kitty for player payments.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Copied from the RA thread:

Quick Hands said "I don’t think he was in any Wallabies or Waratahs gear at all. In fact I don’t think his picture was in the post at all. I’m sure that RA and the NSWRU would have rightly had plenty to say about it if he did."

EDIT: copied from post #14 on this thread.

 

[Samson]

So are some other words which some vulnerable people find highly objectionable when they are used as weapons against them.







Sticks and stones, etc. A threat does not have to be real to be damaging to a person who is struggling with some aspects of their life.

Using this thought then it is reasonable that a young impressionable Christian could find it objectionable to be told there is no heaven.

 

[Quick Hands]

Copied from the RA thread:

Quick Hands said "I don’t think he was in any Wallabies or Waratahs gear at all. In fact I don’t think his picture was in the post at all. I’m sure that RA and the NSWRU would have rightly had plenty to say about it if he did."

View attachment 10763
EDIT: copied from post #14 on this thread.

Well, that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that and I’ve never heard any discussion of it. Certainly neither RA or the NSWRU have never said anything about it.

Makes me suspicious of it’s origin, particularly when it wasn’t even part of the Code of Conduct process. I’d have thought that RA would have made a big deal of it as it would have helped their case.

Not even RA’s favoured reporters have published a story about it.

 

[Slim 293]

It’s legit............ that was his profile picture at the time, and both Fairfax and News used screenshots of it in their reporting.

Since the hearing he’s deleted all of his rugby/sponsor related photos.

 

[RugbyReg]

Well, that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that and I’ve never heard any discussion of it. Certainly neither RA or the NSWRU have never said anything about it.

Makes me suspicious of it’s origin, particularly when it wasn’t even part of the Code of Conduct process. I’d have thought that RA would have made a big deal of it as it would have helped their case.

Not even RA’s favoured reporters have published a story about it.

fake news? Nah, it was like that at the time of him posting. Was all over social media and many people made the point of being in Tahs gear.

 

[Quick Hands]

fake news? Nah, it was like that at the time of him posting. Was all over social media and many people made the point of being in Tahs gear.

Well there you go. I must lead a sheltered life.

 

[Quick Hands]

Clearly Australia needs an immediate introduction of a US-style first amendment where free speech is guaranteed.
Then RA and Israel could come to a peaceful resolution which includes him playing rugby for Australia. Now.

I think we passed that point some time ago.

It’s now an increasingly bitter fight to the finish.

 

[Adam84]

Well, that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that and I’ve never heard any discussion of it. Certainly neither RA or the NSWRU have never said anything about it.

Makes me suspicious of it’s origin, particularly when it wasn’t even part of the Code of Conduct process. I’d have thought that RA would have made a big deal of it as it would have helped their case.

Not even RA’s favoured reporters have published a story about it.

Nah It was reported in articles, it was even reported when he removed the Tahs photo and changed it to something else.

 

[Slim 293]

I wish you were right. unfortunately your premise is incorrect. There is a Christian killed every 12 minutes for no other reason than their belief. Add to that the numbers imprisoned and bashed for their faith. Two wrongs admittedly but I think the LGBT are on the better end of the stick.

Yeah, I’m sure you’re better off being gay in those countries where Christians are persecuted or killed.........

Meanwhile, the rate of violence and homicides towards LGBTI people hit an all time high recently in some Christian countries, including the United States.

But here is why Folau’s comments shouldn’t be tolerated.........

Lesbian, gay, and bisexual kids are 3x more likely than straight kids to attempt suicide at some point in their lives.

Medically serious attempts at suicide are 4x more likely among LGBTQ youth than other young people.

41% of trans adults said they had attempted suicide, in one study. The same study found that 61% of trans people who were victims of physical assault had attempted suicide.

Lesbian, gay, and bisexual young people who come from families that reject or do not accept them are over 8x more likely to attempt suicide than those whose families accept them.

Each time an LGBTQ person is a victim of physical or verbal harassment or abuse, they become 2.5x more likely to hurt themselves.

 

[The Honey Badger]

There is nothing wrong with terminating Folau without a CoC hearing.

The CoC hearing is not a requirement of termination. RA can terminate a player. The player can either accept the termination and move on, or, contest either the wrong doing or the severity of the punishment. If they contest then a CoC hearing is called to adjudicate impartially.

In the same way you must be charged with a crime before you can go to court you must be charged prior to a CoC hearing.

The hearing is a players option that they can use under their EBA not an RA requirement

Hi Kiwikrs, welcome to G&G forum.

Real question, are you associated with RA or their PR agency.?