SupeRugby Final 2011: Queensland Reds V Canterbury Crusaders

[Scotty]

I'm counting Attack and Defence as two different areas. Just included them in the same paragraph because they go hand-in-hand. I didn't make it clear enough, sorry about that!

Even then it is 3-2 with one (breakdown) shared.

If the Reds win the breakdown, then they are likely to win the match, but they need to step up a lot from last week's effort.

 

[ACT Crusader]

These calls of biased referee's is a massive insult to referees IMO. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever, no 'statistics', that back up these claims.

Personally I couldn't care less about who the ref is, where he comes from within SANZAR, he's not the main attraction here. For what it's worth I liked the move to have any ref given any game approach. IMO it gives the refs far more exposure to different teams. It also helps with the scheduling from what I've heard.

 

[Godfrey]

Exactly. It would be great if this great matchup wasn't marred with that kind of talk.

 

[rsea]

Perhaps if they're insulted they'll take a look at themselves. The bias against Australian teams is clear from the unholy trinity. That is your proof and that is why people are complaining.

Godfrey - I can appreciate what you're saying. I wish this great matchup wasn't marred by the appointment of Lawrence.

 

[tigerland12]

Speaking of match ups

Horwill and Simmons vs Thorn and Whitelock
Robinson vs McCaw
Samo vs Read
Cooper vs Carter
Ioane and Davies vs Guildford and Maitland

Todd vs Gill?? haha

 

[tigerland12]

Perhaps if they're insulted they'll take a look at themselves. The bias against Australian teams is clear from the unholy trinity. That is your proof and that is why people are complaining.

Godfrey - I can appreciate what you're saying. I wish this great matchup wasn't marred by the appointment of Lawrence.

Mate just let it go, there is much more interesting things to talk about in this match.

 

[rsea]

Sorry I'm all wound up over it.

Please continue gents

 

[Raugeee]

From my memory Bryce has been good in the Reds matches he has had this year. No reason for anyone to think this will change now. Would rather Joubert, but then I do get concerned about some of his scrum rulings, and even though Lawrence isn't neutral, I'd much prefer him of Kaplan.

OK Bryce Lawrence reffed 3 Reds games this year:

1: 26th Feb - NSW 30 QLD 6
2: 16th Apr - QLD 39 Bulls 30
3: 6th May - QLD 35 Reb 11

Unfortunatley ( or fortunately ) he didn't ref any Red v A Kiwi team but let's cast our mind back to 2010 where he was responsible for an atrocious display Reds v Hurricanes. A ridiculous Yellow card and allowed the Canes to get away with murder at the breakdown.
Sadly, for me, I'm not blessed with a short memory.

 

[rsea]

Careful or you'll get me going again!
I haven't been this incensed over something since Langthorne had his campaign to get rid of Deans!

 

[Raugeee]

Perhaps if they're insulted they'll take a look at themselves. The bias against Australian teams is clear from the unholy trinity. That is your proof and that is why people are complaining.

Godfrey - I can appreciate what you're saying. I wish this great matchup wasn't marred by the appointment of Lawrence.

I agree. Rsea, it's good to see somebody unafraid to talk about this reproachable situation.
I truly, truly hope I have to eat my words. I truly hope that Lawrence referees to the rules of the game and penalises accordingly.

 

[kiap]

As you can imagine the database took a bit of time to pull together and run the simulations for kick probability, so unlikely to put it up just for fun. More likely to pick the best bits out and share it from time to time. I do tweet the first kick probability as it being lined up, but more to piss off the bookies as in NZ they offer odds on it.

No worries, get into those bookies!

 

[ACT Crusader]

Perhaps if they're insulted they'll take a look at themselves. The bias against Australian teams is clear from the unholy trinity. That is your proof and that is why people are complaining.

Godfrey - I can appreciate what you're saying. I wish this great matchup wasn't marred by the appointment of Lawrence.

I get it now, this is one of those "I told you so's". Every time the ref makes a call YOU don't agree with there will be an I told you so post from rsea.

To borrow a phrase from one of your earlier posts when you questioned Slim - you're making some pretty big assumptions

 

[Bullrush]

The Crusaders should take heart from Blues game.

I'm still dumb-founded by how stupid the game-plan was for the Blues. With big, strong ball-runners like Mealamu, Kaino, Afoa, Faumuina, Williams, Saili....there was no direction to rumble the ball forward and get the Reds committing to the breakdown before going wide. I'm a massive Mealamu fan and have been from his pre-Blues, pre-AB days with Auckland but I'm sad to say his captaincy was found wanting on Saturday. Mathewson as well. These guys should have done a better job of summing up the defense and marshalling the forwards appropriately. If the Reds employ a similiar defensive tactic, the Crusaders will send Read, Thorn, McCaw, Franks etc straight up and into the fringes of the ruck and make some big holes.

The Crusaders cannot allow the Reds space. Cooper, Ioane, Davies....these guys will wreck havoc if the defensive line comes up staggered in chase kicks or guys don't trust their inside man.

I think the physicalness of the Crusaders may be too much in the end. Watching that semi against the Stormers, I couldn't believe how many big hits were being made. It was what I was looking for from the Blues but was let down by......**sob sob**

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Unfortunatley ( or fortunately ) he didn't ref any Red v A Kiwi team but let's cast our mind back to 2010 where he was responsible for an atrocious display Reds v Hurricanes. A ridiculous Yellow card and allowed the Canes to get away with murder at the breakdown.
Sadly, for me, I'm not blessed with a short memory.

I remember that game. The Hurricanes won because they were the better team on the day.

Something that happened in more or less every single game of super rugby played this year. Including the reds vs Crusaders, including the Reds vs Hurricanes, including the reds vs everybody.

At no point this year did the Reds win a match where they weren't the better team. At no point this year have they lost a match when they were the better team.

Therefore, I conclude, that the referee's have not made one iota of difference this year to the Reds results. Regardless of the bullshit the 2 of you are trying to spin.

And that's my last comment on this issue - I've already made too many. There's 15 fantastic match ups to discuss on. Peace out.

 

[kiap]

These calls of biased referee's is a massive insult to referees IMO. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever, no 'statistics', that back up these claims.

Personally I couldn't care less about who the ref is, where he comes from within SANZAR, he's not the main attraction here. For what it's worth I liked the move to have any ref given any game approach. IMO it gives the refs far more exposure to different teams. It also helps with the scheduling from what I've heard.

Sorry, you are wrong.

There is most definitely evidence of referees' national favouritism in rugby and there is statistically valid evidence to back up the claims. Neutral referees do not exhibit the same predispositions.

Having said that, the referee has now been chosen so we wish him a good game and hope to see some great rugby.

 

[Raugeee]

I remember that game. The Hurricanes won because they were the better team on the day.

Something that happened in more or less every single game of super rugby played this year. Including the reds vs Crusaders, including the Reds vs Hurricanes, including the reds vs everybody.

At no point this year did the Reds win a match where they weren't the better team. At no point this year have they lost a match when they were the better team.

Therefore, I conclude, that the referee's have not made one iota of difference this year to the Reds results. Regardless of the bullshit the 2 of you are trying to spin.

And that's my last comment on this issue - I've already made too many. There's 15 fantastic match ups to discuss on. Peace out.

Yes, you've made too many.

 

[Raugeee]

Sorry, you are wrong.

There is most definitely evidence of referees' national favouritism in rugby and there is statistically valid evidence to back up the claims. Neutral referees do not exhibit the same predispositions.

Having said that, the referee has now been chosen so we wish him a good game and hope to see some great rugby.

Agreed. It's not an insult it's a human condition. Assuming that the refs are human it only makes good sense that they're not put in the situation where they're not supposed to go with their instincts.

if bias isn't an acknowledged human flaw then why does every other international sport on the globe employ neutral refs?

 

[ACT Crusader]

Sorry, you are wrong.

There is most definitely evidence of referees' national favouritism in rugby and there is statistically valid evidence to back up the claims. Neutral referees do not exhibit the same predispositions.

Having said that, the referee has now been chosen so we wish him a good game and hope to see some great rugby.

Im yet to see any of this Super 14/15 evidence, maybe you can point me to it kiap.

 

[cyclopath]

OK, Rule 10 time.
This "discussion" is going nowhere but the crapper, as far as I can see.
Let it go.

 

[RuckinGoodStats]

From my memory Bryce has been good in the Reds matches he has had this year. No reason for anyone to think this will change now. Would rather Joubert, but then I do get concerned about some of his scrum rulings, and even though Lawrence isn't neutral, I'd much prefer him of Kaplan.

I can tell you statistically Joubert favours infringements over reset at the scrum. He has a clear and distincitive pattern that only Jonker shares. This is matching him to the other refs in the Super15 comp of course.