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SupeRugby Final 2011: Queensland Reds V Canterbury Crusaders

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Raugeee

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Blame the ref then, up to you. Makes you look very very lame in my opinion (but who cares about that anyway, I'm just a stupid kiwi). I'm guessing you probably thought Dickinson was awesome in the last Saders/Reds game though. Win some, lose some.

Tigerland - agreee, Joubert should be the ref, he was awesome in Saders vs Stormers.

But it's Lawrence, it's been decided it won't be changed. I'm sure both teams are studying the way he refs and looking forward to working with him as it's the right approach. It's a shame alot of fans can't take the same one.

I suppose Majorly Ragerly you're not one of the Kiwis that blames the ref or poisoning or Acts of God for ABs having the worst World Cup record of the four majr nations. ( Australia, South Africa, England, new Zealand ).

The thing is this shouldn't even be a discussion point. There should be a neutral redf.
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
I suppose Majorly Ragerly you're not one of the Kiwis that blames the ref or poisoning or Acts of God for ABs having the worst World Cup record of the four majr nations. ( Australia, South Africa, England, new Zealand ).

The thing is this shouldn't even be a discussion point. There should be a neutral redf.

Read some of my posts to find out if you like. I'm not here to educate you on me.
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
No offence Majorly but it's pretty easy to spin your line as a Kiwi. I noticed that you haven't forgotten the saders reaming by Dickinson. Ever wonder it feels being on the end of that constantly?
 

Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
I think the best way to look at this match is by analysing the key areas. The Reds and the Crusaders are the two best teams in the comp- not a lot separated them last time, and not a lot will separate them on Saturday. The Crusaders look like the perfect 'team' on paper- strong, reliable forwards and backs with plenty of big-game experience and success. The Reds are the perfect crowd pleaser's- flashy backs, minimal scrums, exciting tries. Both teams know their style and employ their game plan to great effect. So lets take a look at these key aspects:

Scrum:
A front row of Franks-Flynn-Crockett obviously has the wood over Daley-Fainga'a-Holmes. The 'Saders will play a game orientated around the set piece and the young Queensland front row will have to give everything to stop it. With Sir Richie calling the shots I have no doubt that his unrivalled ability to influence the referee will lead to the Reds' scrum being constantly penalised once it starts to collapse. The Crusaders win this one.

Line-out:
Once again, the Crusaders look to have this one over the Reds. Although the Reds jumpers are just as good as the opposition (IMO Simmons has done an excellent job calling the shots this year), Fainga'a's throwing really worries me. It has seemingly been worsening since the last few rounds of competition, and if he continues to throw dodgy ball then Lawrence will be straight onto it. Crusaders for me.

Breakdown:
This is a tough one. The Crusaders have a phenomenal back-row in Whitelock-Read-McCaw (not to mention Todd), however I think the Reds can match them. Higginbotham plays a very loose game, but Beau Robinson has done an exceptional job, and coupled with the hearty efforts that Daley, Samo, Horwill et al. have shown they can produce I feel the Reds can nullify any advantage the 'Saders have. Gill has been doing an outstanding job recently, and I think he can match Todd coming off the bench. Reds for me (in a close one), as long as Lawrence disciplines McCaw when he does what he does best.

Attack and Defence:
The Reds backline is the most creative and explosive in Super Rugby. Quade Cooper's ability to create something out of nothing is unrivalled by any player in the world. Anybody who doubts this should go and find a highlights package from last weekend's Semi-Final, where his footwork and skill set led to an unbelievable Ben Tapuai try. His counter-attack from fullback has been a revelation, and coupled with Digby Ioane's line-breaking ability and Rod Davies' lightning speed, it is almost impossible to defend against this backline. Tapuai and Fainga'a were able to contain SBW last time round, so there's no reason it can't happen again. Dan Carter's backline is loaded with skill and speed, but I just don't think they can match QLD. Reds have both attack and defence in the bag.

Place Kicking:
Goal-kicking could very easily determine who wins this years Super Rugby trophy. Cooper's penalty with only one minute left on the clock won the Reds the match last time, and I feel a similar outcome is imminent. Cooper's goal-kicking is somewhat enigmatic- he can miss in front, then nail one from the sideline only 5 minutes apart. Carter's talent will play a massive part in how this match is played, with the Crusaders likely to take a no-risk, points driven approach. I'd have Carter kicking over Cooper any day. Crusaders for me.

So 3-3. Very close, but hardly surprising. Both teams have their strengths and weaknesses, so it'll be a contest right until the final whistle. I'm tipping the Reds by 6, but I wouldn't be surprised if the result is reversed.
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
No offence Majorly but it's pretty easy to spin your line as a Kiwi. I noticed that you haven't forgotten the saders reaming by Dickinson. Ever wonder it feels being on the end of that constantly?

But yet despite being screwed by all 'n sundry & needing to score an extra 10 points here you are hosting a home final after topping the table & securing the most wins of any team?

Are you that commentator who said a few weeks back that the current Reds are the best provincial team in the history of the game?

Oh, and I fail to see what my nationality has to do with this?
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
All the teams were consulted prior regarding the referee appointments for the finals...

If you blame the ref you're really just pointing the responsibility back to your team...

I doubt in a match of this importance that Lawrence is going to pull a Kaplan style penalty out of nowhere in the last minute to cost one team the game...
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
It is what it is and none of us can change it. It is a stupid selection as personally I would of given Mark Lawrence the job. He manages the game well and as a side note he is a neutral.

Let's just hope we see the great game it shapes up to be and is not destroyed by referee incompetents.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
I think the best way to look at this match is by analysing the key areas. The Reds and the Crusaders are the two best teams in the comp- not a lot separated them last time, and not a lot will separate them on Saturday. The Crusaders look like the perfect 'team' on paper- strong, reliable forwards and backs with plenty of big-game experience and success. The Reds are the perfect crowd pleaser's- flashy backs, minimal scrums, exciting tries. Both teams know their style and employ their game plan to great effect. So lets take a look at these key aspects:

Scrum:
A front row of Franks-Flynn-Crockett obviously has the wood over Daley-Fainga'a-Holmes. The 'Saders will play a game orientated around the set piece and the young Queensland front row will have to give everything to stop it. With Sir Richie calling the shots I have no doubt that his unrivalled ability to influence the referee will lead to the Reds' scrum being constantly penalised once it starts to collapse. The Crusaders win this one.

Line-out:
Once again, the Crusaders look to have this one over the Reds. Although the Reds jumpers are just as good as the opposition (IMO Simmons has done an excellent job calling the shots this year), Fainga'a's throwing really worries me. It has seemingly been worsening since the last few rounds of competition, and if he continues to throw dodgy ball then Lawrence will be straight onto it. Crusaders for me.

Breakdown:
This is a tough one. The Crusaders have a phenomenal back-row in Whitelock-Read-McCaw (not to mention Todd), however I think the Reds can match them. Higginbotham plays a very loose game, but Beau Robinson has done an exceptional job, and coupled with the hearty efforts that Daley, Samo, Horwill et al. have shown they can produce I feel the Reds can nullify any advantage the 'Saders have. Gill has been doing an outstanding job recently, and I think he can match Todd coming off the bench. Reds for me (in a close one), as long as Lawrence disciplines McCaw when he does what he does best.

Attack and Defence:
The Reds backline is the most creative and explosive in Super Rugby. Quade Cooper's ability to create something out of nothing is unrivalled by any player in the world. Anybody who doubts this should go and find a highlights package from last weekend's Semi-Final, where his footwork and skill set led to an unbelievable Ben Tapuai try. His counter-attack from fullback has been a revelation, and coupled with Digby Ioane's line-breaking ability and Rod Davies' lightning speed, it is almost impossible to defend against this backline. Tapuai and Fainga'a were able to contain SBW last time round, so there's no reason it can't happen again. Dan Carter's backline is loaded with skill and speed, but I just don't think they can match QLD. Reds have both attack and defence in the bag.

Place Kicking:
Goal-kicking could very easily determine who wins this years Super Rugby trophy. Cooper's penalty with only one minute left on the clock won the Reds the match last time, and I feel a similar outcome is imminent. Cooper's goal-kicking is somewhat enigmatic- he can miss in front, then nail one from the sideline only 5 minutes apart. Carter's talent will play a massive part in how this match is played, with the Crusaders likely to take a no-risk, points driven approach. I'd have Carter kicking over Cooper any day. Crusaders for me.

So 3-3. Very close, but hardly surprising. Both teams have their strengths and weaknesses, so it'll be a contest right until the final whistle. I'm tipping the Reds by 6, but I wouldn't be surprised if the result is reversed.

Sorry but I counted it as 3-2 to the Crusaders. Did I miss one?
 

Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
Sorry but I counted it as 3-2 to the Crusaders. Did I miss one?

I'm counting Attack and Defence as two different areas. Just included them in the same paragraph because they go hand-in-hand. I didn't make it clear enough, sorry about that!
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
Yes majorly, despite all that the Reds still did all that you said however I'm not a commentator.

I am a fan who's sick of being screwed by biased refs. Are you a Kiwi supporter who scream like a stuck pig after being wronged by a ref only to later cliche bomb forums with high handed statements

"Blame the ref then, up to you. Makes you look very very lame in my opinion"
"Sorry mate, but blaming the ref one week out from the game is shithouse"

My guess is you'll be the first one on the box to cry about Barnes getting an NZ game at the cup but lets not talk about that
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
If you blame the ref you're really just pointing the responsibility back to your team...

I doubt in a match of this importance that Lawrence is going to pull a Kaplan style penalty out of nowhere in the last minute to cost one team the game...

Unless you're involved in those meetings you're making some pretty big assumptions
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
Yes majorly, despite all that the Reds still did all that you said however I'm not a commentator.

I am a fan who's sick of being screwed by biased refs. Are you a Kiwi supporter who scream like a stuck pig after being wronged by a ref only to later cliche bomb forums with high handed statements

"Blame the ref then, up to you. Makes you look very very lame in my opinion"
"Sorry mate, but blaming the ref one week out from the game is shithouse"

My guess is you'll be the first one on the box to cry about Barnes getting an NZ game at the cup but lets not talk about that

See my post #143 on this thread.
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
Run out of cliches already?
Will be interesting to see your comments through the WC
 
R

Raugeee

Guest
"as long as Lawrence disciplines McCaw when he does what he does best."

Well crafted and intelligent post Swarley. Your comments about Bryce Lawrence seem to be a euphemistic version of what I've posted.

It's a huge supposition that Bryce lawrence will do his job on McCaw. If a ref does do that he can branded in the press as whistlehappy. McCaw is a genius of sorts.

Everything being equal the Reds should be 10 point favourites as Crusaders have that incredible disadvantage of the travelling they've done. However, nothing quite matches having the ref in your corner and as I've posted before I'm tipping the Crusaders by 4.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
From my memory Bryce has been good in the Reds matches he has had this year. No reason for anyone to think this will change now. Would rather Joubert, but then I do get concerned about some of his scrum rulings, and even though Lawrence isn't neutral, I'd much prefer him of Kaplan.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
How can the Reds possibly get anywhere near the Crusaders in this match? Just look at the two line ups. Only Genia would make a combined team! (and maybe Ioane)

:)
 
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