Ignoto
Geoff Shaw (53)
Dirty play doesn't necessarily translate to card counts. For instance, Gerrard's yellow card should not have been given, granted it was a tad high, but from memory, it was around the opposing players shoulders.
Stormers vs Queensland Reds @ Newlands - 2011R08
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Dirty play doesn't necessarily translate to card counts. For instance, Gerrard's yellow card should not have been given, granted it was a tad high, but from memory, it was around the opposing players shoulders.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Go to James Pilots post, he throw the usual SA thug in the mix.
James Buchanan
Trevor Allan (34)
Wait wait wait! I thought it was the dirty players who prompted the other team to get carded.
Following that logic, the Australian teams' statistical position is understandable.
Blue and PB. You both know well enough that Keo is crazy, I'm not lumping you guys with their position. But, you're both arguing a very flimsy point given that in the last couple of years (at least, probably could keep going back though) there have been more occasions of truly 'dirty play' cited against South African players than the other SANZAR nations. While I can understand parochial desire to defend your 'team', you're also both well enough versed in rugby to not pull out the 'stats' argument.
In any regard, my post was merely to infer that the Keo story was not the strongest one that could have been posted, given that certain players are going to be involved in the game.
Following that logic, the Australian teams' statistical position is understandable.
Blue and PB. You both know well enough that Keo is crazy, I'm not lumping you guys with their position. But, you're both arguing a very flimsy point given that in the last couple of years (at least, probably could keep going back though) there have been more occasions of truly 'dirty play' cited against South African players than the other SANZAR nations. While I can understand parochial desire to defend your 'team', you're also both well enough versed in rugby to not pull out the 'stats' argument.
In any regard, my post was merely to infer that the Keo story was not the strongest one that could have been posted, given that certain players are going to be involved in the game.
no arms = shoulder charge = yellow
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
So you try to tell us Bakkies had all the reason to get carded and cited in the past? :nta:
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Are you saying Gerrard's tackle was a shoulder charge?
James Buchanan
Trevor Allan (34)
No, that was the line that the Keo article was running; that the Reds would play dirty and niggle the Stormers so the Stormers would get carded. I'm continuing my slightly facetious digs at the Keo article's logic.
I think that there's certainly been some ill discipline amongst the Australian teams this year but how much of that has been intentional or 'dirty' I think is debatable. Slipper's tackle for one, I think was more just him forgetting to put the other player down properly; which is definitely dangerous but generally the malicious form of those tackles tends to involve some downward drive also.
At least in my mind, I differentiate between recklessly dangerous play and intentionally malicious play. Others may disagree, but for me the latter is 'dirty' and the former 'stupid'. However, you get cards for both of them. That is why I don't entirely buy into counting cards to make an argument about who's dirty.
I was trying to check out some stat websites earlier to see if I could get a breakdown of what people were getting their cards and penalties for, but I couldn't find one that I was happy with so /shrug. But, just from observation, I'd say most of the Aussie cards have been in the 'stupid' category. Unfortunately, I am not committed enough to stay up and watch most of the South African games, so I refrain from comment on theirs for this year.
Pretty much.
It was a "stiff arm" which I see as being equivalent to a shoulder charge or generally, an illegal tackle. He hung one arm out and he didn’t appear to attempt to wrap both arms around the bloke he was tackling.
Law 10.4. (e) and (g)
http://www.irblaws.com/EN/downloads/
yeah i guess it wasn't a true stiff arm and he managed to get a bit of shoulder in there as well
it as more under the armpit and across the ball. I was amazed why Smith didn't crash through
O
OLDDOG
Guest
Oh dear, this may effect things, lets hope not.....Match Officials.
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant referee: Pro Legoete (South Africa), Stefan Breytenbach (South Africa)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)
On a different note, reviewing the scores this year, apart from the force pasting, the games have been close, so lets hope the reds go one better than the rest eh????
The Stormers have home advantage and are the only undefeated team in the competition, having beaten the Lions (19-16), Cheetahs (21-15), Highlanders (18-6), Bulls (23-13), Western Force (51-16) and the Sharks (16-6).
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant referee: Pro Legoete (South Africa), Stefan Breytenbach (South Africa)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)
On a different note, reviewing the scores this year, apart from the force pasting, the games have been close, so lets hope the reds go one better than the rest eh????
The Stormers have home advantage and are the only undefeated team in the competition, having beaten the Lions (19-16), Cheetahs (21-15), Highlanders (18-6), Bulls (23-13), Western Force (51-16) and the Sharks (16-6).
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Gerrard's tackle was only arm. He hit the player across the chest in a fantastic one armed tackled. It was so far from a yellow card it isn't funny.
T
TheTruth
Guest
Most interestingaspect of the game IMO will be to see how Morahan goes at 15 and Harris at centre. Both have the opportunity of cementing places
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Anthony Fainga'a has somewhat been tarnished by his Wallaby debut last year out of position at outside centre against the top side in world rugby. He made his mistakes but the way he was judged on one performance is a bit unfair. He will go good at outside centre this weekend. He straightens and unlike a lot of regular outside centres in Australia he knows how to distribute. One key note about Digby at outside centre is that he is somewhat predictable. I wish the bloke would carry the ball in two hands and keep his options open or at very least give his opposite man that impression. Chambers does this well but it is a trait that most league players excel at.
What makes the Stormers such a great defensive side is the structure and organization they employee. I would love the Reds to spread them out and try and make them more reliant on one on one tackling ability. Devilliers and Fourie will still be solid but let's see what options open up on the fringes and on the inside.
Samo's pace and size make him a good option this weekend but I think Link has remembered the Brisbane test last year against the Boks where Burger was so ineffective when he just couldn't keep up and was caught lagging behind the play. That Reds back row is quick for its size and I am sure this is why Link has gone with the combination he has.
If the Reds win this it will eventually be on the back of the impact from the bench. This game has me jumping out of my skin with excitement.
What makes the Stormers such a great defensive side is the structure and organization they employee. I would love the Reds to spread them out and try and make them more reliant on one on one tackling ability. Devilliers and Fourie will still be solid but let's see what options open up on the fringes and on the inside.
Samo's pace and size make him a good option this weekend but I think Link has remembered the Brisbane test last year against the Boks where Burger was so ineffective when he just couldn't keep up and was caught lagging behind the play. That Reds back row is quick for its size and I am sure this is why Link has gone with the combination he has.
If the Reds win this it will eventually be on the back of the impact from the bench. This game has me jumping out of my skin with excitement.
T
TOCC
Guest
Its a no brainer as to why Harris has been moved in closer to the action, the Stormers defence is built on rushing and shutting the ball down at the 10/12 channels, with two ball players in close to the ruck, it alleviates the pressure on Cooper to spread the ball..
It will be interesting to see, but i reckon the first few balls will go directly to Harris and they will have QC (Quade Cooper) just standing there as a 'decoy' 5/8..
It will be interesting to see, but i reckon the first few balls will go directly to Harris and they will have QC (Quade Cooper) just standing there as a 'decoy' 5/8..
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Ruggo
Anthony played 12 in that test match and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was the 13. But the two key read errors Ant made on defence had nothing to do with his jersey number and unfortunately they resulted in the two Kiwi converted tries. They won 20-10. It is unfair to be judged on his one starting test match but let's keep in mind that there is more to defence than tackling.
It will be a hard ask for him to change positions against a top midfield but you are right in saying that he is a straightener of the line and that will benefit the guys running off him: typically the winger or fullback. But that change, and Harris starting at 12 which he hasn't done for a while, does not make for a good combo on paper, but let's see.
If it works like a charm it wouldn't be the first time we have seen rugby serendipity.
Anthony played 12 in that test match and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was the 13. But the two key read errors Ant made on defence had nothing to do with his jersey number and unfortunately they resulted in the two Kiwi converted tries. They won 20-10. It is unfair to be judged on his one starting test match but let's keep in mind that there is more to defence than tackling.
It will be a hard ask for him to change positions against a top midfield but you are right in saying that he is a straightener of the line and that will benefit the guys running off him: typically the winger or fullback. But that change, and Harris starting at 12 which he hasn't done for a while, does not make for a good combo on paper, but let's see.
If it works like a charm it wouldn't be the first time we have seen rugby serendipity.
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