South Africa tour (and squad)

[Brumbies Guy]

Finally we're getting to some sense on JO'C

To me the kids best position has always been going to be 12. I don't think there's anyone with feet like him in rugby at the moment. QC (Quade Cooper) just has to open him half a gap and he'll be gawn. If AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) / Horne / Diggers / take-your pick, can hang off a shoulder for an offload once he's through, you've got dynamite. He's not a bad front on tackler, and can kick a ball if he has to.

We've danced around Giteau, Barnes and now QC (Quade Cooper) at 10-12, shoehorning the kid into 15, and now wing. FUBAR. But finally we don't seem to need do that anymore now that Gits' and Barnes' stars have waned.

To me this is so fucking obviously the next best 10/12 partnership in the world, I can only think Dingo has it up his sleeve as a rescue plan next year.

It also means KB (Kurtley Beale) can stay at 15 (half of you wash your mouths out, where's Reddy! to tell me how slow the whole All Black backline must be??)

PS. Thank fuck someone else spotted A Finger playing the 'shooter' or 'rabbit' role in defence and getting caught, BADLY. As did AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) by memory.

PPS. FOR FUCK SAKE, GET A GRIP ABOUT HIGGENBOTHAM. Based on his S14, he'd make our fucking problems worse.

I saw him playing this role for the majority of the game. So is it actually A Fainga'a's fault or Deanes failed tatics he had Ant playing? He played a much different and successful defensive style for Reds this year.

 

[Crow]

I think Beale's defense was up to the task, Cooper is the main worry, but whatareyagonnado? We've sorely missed him in the last 2. JOC (James O'Connor) then, next to Cooper could be the big issue. I don't know if you'd want to rejig the line to put him in the 13 spot and bring AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) closer.

 

[dobduff11]

They wouldn't have to worry about the defence with TPN, Pocock, Elsom, HOrne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and digby all roaming around in there.

Bearing in mind this won't happen for another couple of years atleast i think a few other players maybe knocking on the door aswell hopefully Ben tapuai, morahan and To'omua. The backline would be so classy something like the 84 team (just kidding they are still someway off of them).
Future Backline 2012/2013
9. Genia
10. Supa Cooper / To'omua
11. Digby
12. JOC (James O'Connor) / Tapuai
13. Rob Horne / Kimami Situati
14. Luke Morahan / Shipperley
15. Kurtley Beale/ Aidan Toua

Thats basicaly the who's who of the australin schoolboys backline over the past few years. Hopefully joe tomane can return from the dark side and reunite the 2007 schoolboys class lol

If that sort of backline was ever assembled for a test im sure they would absolutely tear it up

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't think we have to worry about the future of backline play in this Wallaby team. There are so many good young players who are there or thereabouts that plenty is possible. The only issues are a, having enough of them fit or not suspended to be out on the paddock at the same time and b, the possibility that they haven't developed as much as we'd like at this point in time. The RWC may come a little early for this current generation, but if we stick with them, there could be some real excitement around the corner.

We just need to sort out the pack and we'll be right.

 

[Lindommer]

I don't think we have to worry about the future of backline play in this Wallaby team.

Apart from their size. A lot of these blokes are on the small side of large, we can't continue to put a team of midgets from 10 to 15 on the paddock and expect not to get bashed off the pill. This is the major beef I have with JOC (James O'Connor), for me he should've been told some time ago to learn the art of scrum half. It would've also made him develop his passing skills which are currently non-existant.

Dingo would be well advised to develop an RWC backs squad around AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale, Cooper, Hynes, Ioane and Shepherd, and anyone else with a bit of size about him. In the past he's gone for outright speed at the Saders, he could add Mitchell and Turner to that list.

 

[H...]

PS. Thank fuck someone else spotted A Finger playing the 'shooter' or 'rabbit' role in defence and getting caught, BADLY. As did AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) by memory.

Perhaps if they were all coming up in a hurry we wouldn't have gifted the ABs 10 easy metres after every single breakdown.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I would hate to sacrifice speed and skill for outright size, but there are positions where it is useful, like outside centre and often fullback. To me it's all about the "total package" with a player and how they fit into the game plan. We've had some smaller players who have been terrific in the pro era who aren't that big and others who have been big and it hasn't been enough.

Speed of foot and ball movement are two absolutely crucial things in rugby IMHO. If we can combine that with some size, we will have built the perfect backline, but if we were to have to go without one, physical stature is arguably one of them. This is all predicated on the game plan being up-tempo 15 man footy. If that changes then forget everything I said.

 

[Groucho]

Apart from their size. A lot of these blokes are on the small side of large, we can't continue to put a team of midgets from 10 to 15 on the paddock and expect not to get bashed off the pill. This is the major beef I have with JOC (James O'Connor), for me he should've been told some time ago to learn the art of scrum half. It would've also made him develop his passing skills which are currently non-existant.

Dingo would be well advised to develop an RWC backs squad around AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale, Cooper, Hynes, Ioane and Shepherd, and anyone else with a bit of size about him. In the past he's gone for outright speed at the Saders, he could add Mitchell and Turner to that list.

It isn't JOC (James O'Connor)'s passing skills that are the probelm, but his mindset. He has demonstrated at the Force that he has an outstanding passing game, in the same league as Cooper's. However, that is in a playmaker role where the kudos comes from setting up the man. In a finisher's role his typical teenager mind perceives the kudos to be in running round everyone, so that's what he tries to do. Deans just has to coach this out of him, or else we wait for some experience to set in.

 

[Ruggo]

I think they are all improving.

I think we need Hynes back in as he does the basics so reiably. Not at the expense of Beale. Leave him there to grow.

 

[H...]

I'd love to see Davies involved when he gets fit. And not "3 mins on the EOYT and the odd pine ride in the next years 3N" type involved, but 3 starts in a row type involved.

 

[Viking]

JOC (James O'Connor) then, next to Cooper could be the big issue. I don't know if you'd want to rejig the line to put him in the 13 spot and bring AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) closer.

I dont think its a big issue. JOC (James O'Connor) was pretty damn good at defense vs the Boks last game, especially his front on defence. He got caught out of position vs the ABs on the wing as he's NOT A WINGER. But he's got experience at 12 so his positioning shouldnt be as bad. Im not sure whos better at positioning themselves gits or JOC (James O'Connor), but i recon JOC (James O'Connor) is just as a good tackler then gits now, maybe even better he did dump Matfeid on his ass afterall. So really if gits is 1st choice 12 atm and we bring in JOC (James O'Connor) to replace him we sacrifice nothing in defense.

 

[barbarian]

I'd love to see Davies involved when he gets fit. And not "3 mins on the EOYT and the odd pine ride in the next years 3N" type involved, but 3 starts in a row type involved.

Yeah but I would love for about 30 people to get '3 start in a row' experience. The problem is you can only field so many. 15 IIRC. So as much as Davies is a good prospect there are a few who are ahead of him in the queue for 3 starts in a row. Riding the bench and an EOYT is probably the best we can give him.

 

[DPK]

Who else would like to see McCabe and Davies on the wings for the Wallabies midweek games on this years EOYT?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Who else would like to see McCabe and Davies on the wings for the Wallabies midweek games on this years EOYT?

I would definitely like to see that. In fact, I would like to see McCabe given some sort of shot full stop. I've loved watching his style of go forward and his attitude all season.

 

[RedsHappy]

Finally we're getting to some sense on JO'C To me the kids best position has always been going to be 12. To me this is so fucking obviously the next best 10/12 partnership in the world, I can only think Dingo has it up his sleeve as a rescue plan next year.

Gagger, I think there's a great deal of merit for RD to experiment now with your suggestion which is surely a smart, not reckless, calculated risk. But we all know this means confronting 'the unmovable icon' and placing him at wing or bench or out for a game or two (or three...). And this is just what should occur.

Why you say that RD might 'have this up his sleeve...for next year', I don't grasp. Surely it is right now that some boldness and considered experimentation is required for our under-performing back line? There's more to gain than to lose.

 

[DPK]

Why you say that RD might 'have this up his sleeve...for next year', I don't grasp. Surely it is right now that some boldness and considered experimentation is required for our under-performing back line? There's more to gain than to lose.

Boldness and considered experimentation does not cover playing key players out of position. PdV knows it, RD should know it too.

In Deans' case, a risky decision should be to play JO'C at one of his covered positions. LIKE 12.

IMO, playing JO'C on the wing was a stupid decision, not a bold one (although I am aware that the outcome of a stupid decision can make it seem bold). I think this because JO'C is not a long term winger and his skill set does not meet the requirements of an international winger currently.

 

[Gagger]

For the size and defensive objectors to JOC (James O'Connor) at 12, who are the man-mountain, tackle-aholic alternatives? Jo'C defence at 12 for the Force has been excellent, including against Nonu etc. As pointed out above, it's when he's out of position that things go wrong.

I think you'd find the only seriously different alternative would be Tom Carter........ (where's Bruce?)

Why you say that RD might 'have this up his sleeve...for next year', I don't grasp. Surely it is right now that some boldness and considered experimentation is required for our under-performing back line? There's more to gain than to lose.

It was sarcasm, I see no reason now to not get the combo going. Deans has been shoehorning JOC (James O'Connor) in to date because of the kids talent, no need to anymore.

 

[naza]

I don't think we have to worry about the future of backline play in this Wallaby team. There are so many good young players who are there or thereabouts that plenty is possible.

Bullfuckingshit. The backs are atrocious. They think they are above such things as tackling ,decoy running, set moves, support play, running straight, chasing kicks and you name it. I cannot get over how lazy and complacent our backs are. These blokes, allegedly professionals, lack the catch pass skills expect at U11s level. Haven't you watched the Wallabies play ? Our backline regularly bombs 5 on 3 opportunities as the backs cannot comprehend concepts like drawing and passing.

The utterly fucked matador defence we're seeing lately is 100% the fault of the backs. The ABs are scoring at will thanks to the utter ineptness of our backs.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Well it hasn't been great this season, apart from T1 against England where I thought it was brilliant, but I wouldn't put it in as dire terms as that. Note that I did use the word future. The potential is there, the polish is not yet. Patience grasshopper

 

[dobduff11]

naza i think you may be overstating it a little, the backs aren't atrocious if you want to see poor back play come and watch Italy, scotland and england play most of their internationals.

Australia have some of the most talented backs in the world Genia, cooper, gits as well as some promising youngsters (To'omua, taps, JOC (James O'Connor), Horne). They are a classy set of backs and when they are not decimated by injuries they are very accomplished.

I'm sure every NH team apart from France are extremely envious of the wallabies backline and young up and comers. I know england are as i am fed up of seeing danny 'the crabs' care, shontayne hape and toby flood in our team. They are nowhere near as good as the wallabies and only just edged them out of the second test because of gits' miss.

Some stats i put together:

THe all blacks have four backs under 25, Alby, ranger, cruden and dagg. THey have accumalated 6 caps between them
The other all blacks backs have 401 caps, so the % of caps of players under 25 is 1.47%

The wallabies have seven backs under 25, JOC (James O'Connor), Genia, Horne, Barnes, Cooper, A finger and beale. THey have 89 caps between them
The other backs have 241 caps between them so the % of caps of players under 25 is 26.97%

These stats show that the wallabies are using 18X the percentage of under 25s compared to their total amount of caps than the all blacks do and in a few years these under 25s will be from 25-30 ie there prime and australia will have a great backline of experienced players.

When 2011-2015 comes i am sure australia will be comparable to 1999-2001 team.