South Africa tour (and squad)

[Hawko]

The option now could be IMO Barnes. Barnes is a reliable goal kicker, can pass, is a better defender than Giteau and is a great foil for the flair of Cooper.

Wasn't this the combination for the first test against England? You know, one of only two games played this year when the backline didn't look totally clueless.

 

[DPK]

Wasn't this the combination for the first test against England? You know, one of only two games played this year when the backline didn't look totally clueless.

IMO Barnes is a better chance of playing into form for the Wobs than Giteau, and should be there for the next test we play (with AF on the bench).

Oh and for Leliifano, what about "The Flanno?"

 

[Hawko]

Parhaps the two are linked, barbarian. Physical deficiencies constrain a team's tactical options.

Do you really think that the Wallabies presently could play with the same level of intensity as the All Blacks?

Bruce,
Is there any chance that our physical conditioning emphasis has led to the injury situation we have? Perhaps lack of strength has led to injury from contact?

 

[H...]

I feel like we've determined that Barnes has a ceiling, and that ceiling is sitting on the bench covering 10 and 12.

I don't know why people think AF needs to "cement" his position to get another game. FFS Giteau must have played at least 30 tests at inside centre where he's been nothing better than ordinary and I bet he's missed the odd important tackle aswell. Yet there's no shortage of people still drinking his kool-aid.

If Giteau is the best option at 12 we have, what's wrong with throwing AF into the next couple of tests to see if he's a) as good or b) a reliable backup or god forbid c)better? We can even soften the blow to Giteau's ego by telling him he's getting a rest to prepare for his pivotal role against Wales on the EOYT, when he will no doubt have an awesome game and con most people into thinking he can cut it when it counts. Again.

 

[RedsHappy]

In all due respect, I think you are not seing the big picture. Move Giteau back to 12 and all you have is the continuance of a 10/12 pairing that has not worked......
Anthony should of debuted long before last week against Fiji or England when we were told by Robbie deans that the sides were picked on form.

Ruggo, perhaps you missed the fact that I only advocated Barnes 10 Giteau 12 AF Bench for that one Christchurch game, and NOT as an enduring 'solution' of any kind. I am a trenchant advocate that the immovable icon Giteau should long ago have either been benched, or given a complete 6 month break from the game (my favoured option as I am convinced that half his problems are long-term mental fatigue, playing as he has been in pressure roles since 2002).

....but I totally agree with you re RD's inexplicable and reckless decision to blood AF with a run-on in a game like that. Should have happened off the bench, ideally twice, in home games, for at least 20mins per game.

 

[Lee Grant]

Fainga'a has a tendency to rush up and go for the big hit and either misses the mark or is ineffectual.

That's right but ironically when both Kiwi tries were scored rushing up was not the problem.

He was just loitering in a defensive position before Mils' try and couldn't decide whether Kev, the passer, was the guy to go for or Joe Rock. He dithered between them but should have at least lined up against Joe because Kev was covered. At worst Joe may have fallen over him; at best he could have tackled Joe with the pill and stopped the movement; at 2nd best Joe would have been forced to pass to Mils and Beale would have had 1 on 1, not 2 on 1 coming at him.

In the second he retired too slowly after the Carter break, instead of sprinting back. When they recycled the ball quickly and he saw it being passed he turned and took a couple of steps forward in the vain hope of intercepting Weepu's pass to Nonu. This gave the appearance of coming out of the line, but he had never reacted quickly enough to be in it.

When he is more experienced he will realise that whether he is in the line, or in front of it, he must look at where his opponent is and line up on him. He was jogging and watching the tackle area too long to do so. For the 2nd time in the test an All Black opponent ran outside him easily and was able to pass for the try.

It's not an age thing: I can't imagine young Horne doing that. He's in a different position, I know, but he makes quick decisions, both right and wrong, and acts on them quickly too.

On Giteau: people are mentioning Gits as a dud flyhalf as though it is something new. I remember posting in the Oz section of the TSF before the last RWC that this was so because whenever he played there for the Force he showed the same bad habits. Overseas people seem to rate him as a flyhalf more than we do.

But if I had to put my house on one Aussie playing 12 I would go for Gits and am ready for the derision. If it was pissing down with rain though, I would go for Barnes.

I don't know how long I will have that opinion. Others will get a chance including young Anthony again, but I wouldn't do that in the 3N unless our pack was driving forwards with consistency in lead up games. That's the type of test match to use young backs in.

Strong forwards with ticker and technique get headlines for backs.

 

[H...]

If there's anyone there that can only operate when the forwards are providing good quality ball, it's Giteau. Because he isn't big or aggressive enough to create his own go forward.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce,
Is there any chance that our physical conditioning emphasis has led to the injury situation we have? Perhaps lack of strength has led to injury from contact?

Without looking at the specifics of the roster of injured in terms of the nature and circumstances of their disability, Hawko, it is not possible to draw any conclusions. However in general I think that stronger and more powerful players have a decided advantage in collision situations, and that basically is what rugby is - a succession of collisions.

 

[Scotty]

And the other rule is that locks always get broken at some stage or another.

 

[Richo]

I feel like we've determined that Barnes has a ceiling, and that ceiling is sitting on the bench covering 10 and 12.

I think we saw much better from Barnes on the EOYT and at the Reds last year. Whether it's being outside his comfort zone in Sydney, playing Hickey rugby for a year, or what, but he is a lot better than he's been playing this year. I thought his game against England in Perth was at least as good as Giteau's best one this year.

 

[Richo]

No, not necessarily like that.
More by taking the pressure of Cooper by giving Genia another genuine first receiver option and by ripping the Boks up when put through a gap by Cooper or Genia.

A. Fainga'a is a good player but he does not have the game of Giteau just yet. In contrast Giteau could mimic AF pretty closely if that's what he was asked to do.
Giteau has played very well against the Boks in the past and will hopefully do likewise in SA now.

Giteau keeps getting picked with the hope that he'll find form. I'd love nothing more than to see him get his form back, but maybe he needs to head to France for a year to get his groove back. But he's been picked for almost two years on that basis and maybe 5% of his games have been up to scratch. When is Deans and co going to accept that he's not going to find form playing international rugby?

 

[Scotty]

IMO Barnes is a better chance of playing into form for the Wobs than Giteau, and should be there for the next test we play (with AF on the bench).

Oh and for Leliifano, what about "The Flanno?"

I like it.

 

[Gnostic]

It looks like Shepherd is broken AGAIN. Have to say it is the end of his international career this time. He is just too injury prone. A very great shame.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/shepherd-in-doubt-with-hamstring-20100815-125a4.html

 

[Joe Blow]

It is a real shame that he didn't even make it back on the pitch for the Wallabies this time.
Thankfully Hynes is back.

 

[Groucho]

I like it.

His current nickname is Lilo.

 

[Scotty]

Is that his real nickname, or a GAGR one?

 

[H...]

I think we saw much better from Barnes on the EOYT and at the Reds last year. Whether it's being outside his comfort zone in Sydney, playing Hickey rugby for a year, or what, but he is a lot better than he's been playing this year. I thought his game against England in Perth was at least as good as Giteau's best one this year.

Or he looks good at S14 and NH Test level but can't cut it against the ABs / Boks?

 

[Gnostic]

Or he looks good at S14 and NH Test level but can't cut it against the ABs / Boks?

Barnes was very good against the Boks last year in Brisveagas and against the ABs in Wellington when he dropped the sitter when he was over for the try. Even though he missed that try he was pretty good and deserved to start in front of Giteau in the 10 shirt who has never played well at 10 against top opposition. I would prefer Barnes in 10 any day before Giteau. In fact I would prefer they dragged To'omua from club ranks to play 10 before Giteau is selected there again.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Gnostic, I was a defender of Giteau playing at 10 for a good while, but his performances from 2009 onwards no longer justify it. Barnes is clearly the better option at 5/8 IMHO when Cooper is not available.

 

[daz]

Barnes is clearly the better option at 5/8 IMHO when Cooper is not available as long as Barnes is allowed to be the innovative and creative Barnes, not the stifled and uncertain one that is currently on display.

Fixed.

Everyone is fixated on QC (Quade Cooper) and Gits being allowed to be creative, yet IMO Barnes can be just as damaging when he is working outside of the structure, or more to the point, creating the structure. I loved watching this bloke play for the first few years of his S14 and International career, yet now watching him fumble and kick without a clue is almost making me sick. As is his perpetual look of miserableness. You don't just forget how to be a good player.

As much as I think Deans is doing some good things, Barnes is clearly not fitting in, and is certainly not a happy camper. I've said it before that Barnes will be on the first plane to France after the RWC and if so, the ARU allowing that to happen is really just not good enough. This is RD's fault and problem to fix.

2007/08 Barnes, where are you?