So where to from here?

[Jnor]

I actually agreed with your initial rant, Jnor. Old farts going on and generalising about "kids these days" - it's literally a cliche and people do it unironically. Bit pathetic, to be honest.

Thanks, pete. I definitely get sick and tired of hearing it, but probably shouldn't have even bothered reacting. Anyway, back to the game...

Pretorius has played for the Emerging Springboks, I'm sure we've had this discussion but does this rule him out of possible Aus selection (if, of course, he proved good enough with the Tahs)?

 

[DPK]

Agree Swarley; White looks promising (just ask LG).

Palmer didn't appear to scrummage as well in his appearances last year IIRC.

Here's hoping Barnesy stays fit and gets a heck of a lot more gametime for the Wallabies.

 

[glider]

Can you please answer this for me - Deans the best man for the job, a former AB and profile Canterbury Player, reknown tactical kicker, knows the NZ conditions and knows all the NZ players, how and why they play rugby IN NZ - how to play to the conditions and what to expect. yet when we turn up - we dont kick well, we get surprised or we feel like we have conceded already. So i ask you if the coach is coaching - the players have the talent, they are not babies any more and yet somehow their hearts are not in it as a team. If the coach has indeeed given them a message - then the players arent executing and they should be benched. I see more heart from Darren Lockyer in a club league game than these guys all put together. Are they prima donna's and rock stars who think that just turning up is enough and getting paid for that is good enough. im sorry but the rugby public have had enough of all the bullshit about waiting, growing developing.....they throw 18 or 19 year olds into league and they out perform. What ever happened to a play book - you know the book of simple old moves to get you out of trouble from set plays or the ones you use to keep the opposition guessing. it helps to hang onto the ball rather than aimlessly kick it away. The NFL has them and the League has them....I wonder where the Wallabies left their play books.

For all the people old enough - we use to have a scrum coach - i think his name was Alec Evans and i think Topo did some scrum coaching - scrumming is still scrumming hasnt changed in 50 years except for the touchy feely bit - hold forever - then engage.

Anyway - you can say what you like and analyse till the cows come home but something not right with Australian Rugby. I heard a great line from the 67 Green Bay Packers Coach - I would rather have a bunch of guys with a few talents that put in 120% and do what i tell them to do and want to give me more, than a bunch of superstars who dont put in at all. I think that about sums its up.
c

 

[mark_s]

24 hours later I am optimistic about our future. While I don’t think Deans is the right man for the job, I think we have a group of 30 or so players who are capable of beating anyone on our day. The current AB side will go down as one of the all time greats IMO. They have beaten the lions, won numerous 3Ns, bledisloe’s and grand slams.

Beating them at home in a RWC semi final would have been a herculean effort. I think we had players capable of it if they played well and the cards fell our way. Instead the same old consistency problems arise, and that’s the thing I think is most damming for Deans. The AB’s might have won anyway, who knows.

Overall, I think our biggest problems are in the forwards and in Quade Coopers head. We have seen that Quade is capable of better than he delivered in this RWC, it’s up to the coaches to find away to cut the silly mistakes and silly stuff out. Link seemed to manage it pretty effectively at the reds.

As for the forwards, I think we just need another player or two who are front of mind in world 15 discussions. At the moment we only have Pocock although Moore would make a lot of peoples short lists.

 

[Richo]

Well put, Mark_S. Quade needes to learn to tackle too. Even if he just becomes a Morne-esque defender it would be a huge improvement.

 

[H...]

The absolute absence of any observable game plan is also a fairly crucial issue, IMO.

I had long hoped there was more to the plan than "back yourself" but now I'm convinced there never has been.

 

[pete88]

Can someone with the resources and willingness to take one for the team have a look at Quade's defence on Sunday? I have a suspicion it was more Morne and less turnstyle, I'm not sure, I'm kind of going off that post someone put up in the match thread listing everything he did with ball in hand. I thought he might have missed a tackle or two, not sure.

Would be good to see him as the "player in focus" or whatever that feature was we had during the 3N.

 

[No4918]

He did miss one according to the match stats but is definitely improving. His effort against Dagg was top notch in attempting to stop the try and also made a good tackle after chasing his own kick at one stage. Its mainly when he goes high that he misses.

 

[da_grubster]

As I have said before, this Aus team resembles the AB RWC 2003 team. A young, inexperienced side with a lot of flair but not really schooled in the key areas that win a semi or final. Its a learning experience for this Australian side. In much the say way NZ have learned from bitter experience.

There is so much upside with Australian rugby at the moment. The majority of this side can be there for the next world cup. You will then have players in their traditional peak years (late 20's) but with 60-70 caps to their names. Hardened veterans but still with youth on their side.

The nucleus of a good squad is there, develop some depth and you have the luxury of 4 years to do so. The depth issue has meant Aus players just playing too much rugby after a long S15 campaign. Aus played c.11 tests in 14 weeks with pretty much the same side. It is too much of a workload to get the best out of your players when you need it the most. The Lions arrive in 2013 which will be great for the sport in your country. Oh, and I guarantee that Aus will win the tri nations that year as well (always seems to happen after a lions tour as the tri side is the best prepared after 3 hard tests against them)

I know it hurts at the moment but, in truth, the real damage was done in the loss to the irish. Otherwise, you would all be looking forward to a final against the AB's

 

[Langthorne]

Under 20s?! They'll be at least 24 by the next World Cup. Robbie is way ahead of you - he is already scouring the u15s and u16s for our 2015 front row.

 

[Gnostic]

As I have said before, this Aus team resembles the AB RWC 2003 team. A young, inexperienced side with a lot of flair but not really schooled in the key areas that win a semi or final. Its a learning experience for this Australian side. In much the say way NZ have learned from bitter experience.

There is so much upside with Australian rugby at the moment. The majority of this side can be there for the next world cup. You will then have players in their traditional peak years (late 20's) but with 60-70 caps to their names. Hardened veterans but still with youth on their side.

The nucleus of a good squad is there, develop some depth and you have the luxury of 4 years to do so. The depth issue has meant Aus players just playing too much rugby after a long S15 campaign. Aus played c.11 tests in 14 weeks with pretty much the same side. It is too much of a workload to get the best out of your players when you need it the most. The Lions arrive in 2013 which will be great for the sport in your country. Oh, and I guarantee that Aus will win the tri nations that year as well (always seems to happen after a lions tour as the tri side is the best prepared after 3 hard tests against them)

I know it hurts at the moment but, in truth, the real damage was done in the loss to the irish. Otherwise, you would all be looking forward to a final against the AB's

So in other words we have to "learn" what the NZRU did in 2003 and sack Deans, for failing to "school" and prepare the team in the "key areas".

 

[Torn Hammy]

Cooper is a unique talent and talk of ditching him puzzles me.

My observation is that he has a comparably slight physique for a modern day full time professional. Given that the midfield is awash with 100-120kg forwards these days, I credit him with a large amount of courage when he takes on the opposition. Does anyone know why he has the smallest shoulders in his relationship?

I think we need to give him time and a bit of love, because if we don't the mungos will.

 

[Swat]

Doesn't sound like you've reserved judgement to me...

And fuck me am I sick of reading about 'Gen Y' and how it's the end of the world as we know it. What a crock of shit. Every generation is the fucking same, the one preceding it doesn't like them cos they're getting old and have real responsibilities. [/rant]

Sorry, I'm gen y and as a whole we're a bunch of self serving c*nts.

 

[Cardiffblue]

apparently Tim Horan said on Scrum V last night that Australia's next five games will all be against us! Well that sure breaks the monotony with a 6 Nations in between.

 

[waratahjesus]

Cooper is a unique talent and talk of ditching him puzzles me.

My observation is that he has a comparably slight physique for a modern day full time professional. Given that the midfield is awash with 100-120kg forwards these days, I credit him with a large amount of courage when he takes on the opposition. Does anyone know why he has the smallest shoulders in his relationship?

I think we need to give him time and a bit of love, because if we don't the mungos will.

he has signed a one year contract, after his performance at the cup, i dont think we have to worry about mungo land finding him the money his management seek. french rugby may sign him, but not for the millions the manager of champions wants.

as for courage. its his freakin job, if we wanted to cheer on an underdog why dont we select one member of the general public and throw them out there.

 

[Roundawhile]

A couple of observations :-

Can remember Dan Carter being the receiver of a number of long kicks in this tournament, seems the 10 going back is not just QC (Quade Cooper) 'hiding'. Could it actually be having your best attacking players where they're needed?

The amount of box kicks from Will Genia could only have come from the game plan, surely it would have been stopped by the coach if it wasn't? And if it was the game plan why? What happened to our belief in our attack?

Why is JON allowed to reappoint RD before the results of the RWC?

Why do I despair for the future of Aus rugby for the next 2 years?

 

[voodoo]

"The amount of box kicks from Will Genia could only have come from the game plan, surely it would have been stopped by the coach if it wasn't? And if it was the game plan why? What happened to our belief in our attack?"

Got to agree about the box kick, teams new exactly what was coming and prepared for it. The Kiwis had blockers in place and great catches we never looked like regaining the ball and it almost always lead to the Kiwis coming at us on the front foot. Yet we never changed tack or adjusted.

We do have great attacking players but not in the centres, with McCabe and Fiangaa. How Barnes couldn't make the team I'll never know - he looked great every time he came on and his defense looks top notch to me. I would have had Gitaeu there as well, how Deans decided he's not in our top 30 players I'll never know.

 

[Hawko]

Under 20s?! They'll be at least 24 by the next World Cup. Robbie is way ahead of you - he is already scouring the u15s and u16s for our 2015 front row.

Langthorne, Kindly keep the truth to yourself! At first I laughed at your "joke" and then I realised you are almost certainly right. At this point the tears began to flow....

 

[Train Without a Station]

Definitely time for an overhaul. Of all the talk about how well Robbie Deans has done since taking over the alleged 'basket case' that Eddie Jones and John Connolly left him, what has happened?

Our scrum still sucks. Our forward play is still lacking. Our goal kicking is still lacking. Our tactical kicking is still lacking. We still rely on attacking flair, without earning the right to go wide. He has had four years to develop and absolutely nothing has changed. At least under knuckles and fast Eddie, we didn't lose 10 on the trot to the AB's as part of building to a tournament which we didn't make it to the final of anyway. Far too many losses when we were unbackable favorites. England in Perth, Scotland at Murrayfield, Ireland this year.

I don't think it's throwing out the baby with the bath water to say we need a complete overhaul. Part of the issue is that tight forward play isn't respected enough in Australia but that's not all of it.

The first thing Robbie Deans should have been doing this year is basically following on from the Reds. It may not have worked in Test football, but it would have been a good fucking starting point. They managed to make up for set piece inadequacies through good forward play around the park. Not props scoring on the wing, but quality tight forward work. I don't understand how Robbie Deans for the first real test match could not just throw up the Reds 22 from the Super Rugby final and then go through and replace every player where there was a better alternative. It would have had to have been a better approach than pick a bunch of guys that didn't play that well for the Wallabies consistently last season, and generally had average Super Rugby seasons in underperforming Super Rugby teams.

Obviously test rugby is different to provincial rugby, but having the Super Rugby champions would have been a decent starting point.

 

[Richo]

Can remember Dan Carter being the receiver of a number of long kicks in this tournament, seems the 10 going back is not just QC (Quade Cooper) 'hiding'. Could it actually be having your best attacking players where they're needed?

Australia's best counter-attacking player is Kurtley Beale. He was moved from his preferred (and clearly optimal) position at fullback to hide Quade's shit defen--- errr... sorry, I mean to maximize the team's ability to counter-attack. The Kiwis move Carter back for different reasons and far less frequently.