So where to from here?

[Ruggo]

I still don't get the man love for size. It is more about using what you have. Reid, Parise and Hiranordiquay are not huge men though tecnically outstanding and the most impactful number eights in world rugby.

 

[Bullrush]

I liked the look of Vaea in Super Rugby. Big, strong, hard and an air of "I don't give a f**k" that is sorely missing from the Wallaby pack.

 

[Loki74]

It's definitely a case of having to develop someone. None of the Super no.8s stand out at the moment (hence Samo). Palu when he is fit, then a big gap.

 

[H...]

You can stick a fork in Elsom, Vickerman, and Samo, cos they're done.

We'd be best off with Elsom going to Europe, though I understand he's re-resigned in Australia.

 

[Loki74]

Still, I am probably down on it all because of the result from last night. 4 years ago, unless you were following school boy rugby, you probably wouldn't have been thinking Beale, O'Connor, Cooper (I know he had a crap world cup) or Pocock even. So 4 years is a long time to develop some fresh talent. Look at Wales with Warburton.

 

[Braveheart81]

I disagree. Elsom is only 28. He still has a few good years left in him. I also think he is still way ahead of Higginbotham or any of our other 6 options at test level.

I think 6 is a weak point for us as well. There is no one close to forcing Elsom to move on.

 

[light]

Only players who have kept their positions after this world cup IMO.
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5.
6.
7. Pocock
8.
9.
10.
11. Ioane
12.
13.
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

16. Polata-Nau
17. Slipper
18.
19.
20.
21.
22. Barnes

We need to start re-building ASAP. Sharpe and Vickerman won't be around for much longer so we either need to work on Simmons or pick Pyle or Timani. Elsom has tried hard but not really impressed at 6, Higgenbotham and Hodson probably deserve a go. No 8 has been our weakness the entire tournament, McCalman and Samo just don't cut it, Vaea or Dennis would be next best bet. Centre's have been shocking, McCabe would still be frontrunner but I think Barnes and Horne are also challenging for that spot, but do we also need AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in our XV? Genia was hot and cold all tournament, he doesn't have any competition for the 9 though as Phipps has looked along way off. And finally Quade was dissapointing all tournament, Barnes looks the most likely but other candidates include JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale.

 

[H...]

I disagree. Elsom is only 28. He still has a few good years left in him. I also think he is still way ahead of Higginbotham or any of our other 6 options at test level.

I think 6 is a weak point for us as well. There is no one close to forcing Elsom to move on.

He hasn't been consistently "good" since he returned from the Magners League.

The Lions are going to be strong in '13. Last night's pack in two years time will not beat them.

 

[H...]

Only players who have kept their positions after this world cup IMO.
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5.
6.
7. Pocock
8.
9.
10.
11. Ioane
12.
13.
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

16. Polata-Nau
17. Slipper
18.
19.
20.
21.
22. Barnes

We need to start re-building ASAP. Sharpe and Vickerman won't be around for much longer so we either need to work on Simmons or pick Pyle or Timani. Elsom has tried hard but not really impressed at 6, Higgenbotham and Hodson probably deserve a go. No 8 has been our weakness the entire tournament, McCalman and Samo just don't cut it, Vaea or Dennis would be next best bet. Centre's have been shocking, McCabe would still be frontrunner but I think Barnes and Horne are also challenging for that spot, but do we also need AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in our XV? Genia was hot and cold all tournament, he doesn't have any competition for the 9 though as Phipps has looked along way off. And finally Quade was dissapointing all tournament, Barnes looks the most likely but other candidates include JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was one of the very few that played with half a brain last night.

 

[Loki74]

Only players who have kept their positions after this world cup IMO.
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5.
6.
7. Pocock
8.
9.
10.
11. Ioane
12.
13.
14. O'Connor
15. Beale

16. Polata-Nau
17. Slipper
18.
19.
20.
21.
22. Barnes

We need to start re-building ASAP. Sharpe and Vickerman won't be around for much longer so we either need to work on Simmons or pick Pyle or Timani. Elsom has tried hard but not really impressed at 6, Higgenbotham and Hodson probably deserve a go. No 8 has been our weakness the entire tournament, McCalman and Samo just don't cut it, Vaea or Dennis would be next best bet. Centre's have been shocking, McCabe would still be frontrunner but I think Barnes and Horne are also challenging for that spot, but do we also need AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in our XV? Genia was hot and cold all tournament, he doesn't have any competition for the 9 though as Phipps has looked along way off. And finally Quade was dissapointing all tournament, Barnes looks the most likely but other candidates include JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale.

It's funny, but this makes it look like we have good depth in out front row? And Genia has to be in surely.

 

[H...]

Cooper needs some balls, some tackling practice, and a coach that doesn't tolerate stupidity and he might be useful.

Failing that, league can have him.

 

[Bullrush]

I liked the look of Vaea in Super Rugby. Big, strong, hard and an air of "I don't give a f**k" that is sorely missing from the Wallaby pack.

Just to add to this.....if I was a Wallaby selector, I wouldn't care how fast my No.1 - No.5 or my No.8 is. I'd just want guys to bring the pain. You can work on a player's speed but it's nigh on impossible to get him 'mongrel'....for lack of a better word.

 

[tigerland12]

Just to add to this.....if I was a Wallaby selector, I wouldn't care how fast my No.1 - No.5 or my No.8 is. I'd just want guys to bring the pain. You can work on a player's speed but it's nigh on impossible to get him 'mongrel'....for lack of a better word.

If you look at the only forwards who did well at this world cup, Pocock and Vickerman (to some extent), both bring that mongrel. Ironically both were brought up in the hard culture of Southern Africa (Zimbabwe and South Africa respectively).

So the point of my post is.......we need more South African imports.

 

[louie]

We need depth and fast. Need more props, 2nd rows, Blind flankers, no 9, 10, 12 ,13 and 14. proper back ups that will challenge for the first team, not just their for injuries, like burgo.

 

[jollyswagman]

If you look at the only forwards who did well at this world cup, Pocock and Vickerman (to some extent), both bring that mongrel. Ironically both were brought up in the hard culture of Southern Africa (Zimbabwe and South Africa respectively).

So the point of my post is.......we need more South African imports.

.....and fewer kiwi imports!

 

[Richo]

There's a lot of nonsense being typed around here. We don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Look at the sides that won World Cups. They are all experienced men. If New Zealand wins on Sunday, we are looking at 2011, 2007, 2003 and 1999 all being won by experienced teams. The core of the side that beat us last night is playing their THIRD tournament. We have a young core group who can develop into a fantastic side. To do that they need some experienced heads around. For example, ditching Vickerman would be stupid in the extreme. He has the physicality and -- more importantly -- the attitude to use it that is sorely lacking from a number of our forwards.

Settle down, people. Youth breeds error. The antidote is to build experience, not get rid of it.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think we will really miss Burgess. I don't think Phipps is close to him. Genia had a relatively poor RWC and Burgess should have seen far more game time.

There was no good reason why Burgess shouldn't have come on with 20 minutes to go last night. Genia wasn't doing anything particularly good.

 

[Loki74]

There's a lot of nonsense being typed around here. We don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Look at the sides that won World Cups. They are all experienced men. If New Zealand wins on Sunday, we are looking at 2011, 2007, 2003 and 1999 all being won by experienced teams. The core of the side that beat us last night is playing their THIRD tournament. We have a young core group who can develop into a fantastic side. To do that they need some experienced heads around. For example, ditching Vickerman would be stupid in the extreme. He has the physicality and -- more importantly -- the attitude to use it that is sorely lacking from a number of our forwards.

Settle down, people. Youth breeds error. The antidote is to build experience, not get rid of it.

I don't think it is a case of ditching Vickerman. Just that, at 32, he only has a couple of years left you would expect.

 

[vidiot]

We need composure and decision-making. Not just another round of exciting x-factor man-boys who can make all the same mistakes next time round.

To use deans-speak, this round of rwc "learning" (= pain) is the sort of painful experience the younger 2/3 of the squad can really build on, with the right direction.

The right decision making would have allowed the wobs to take it to the next level, but what do you expect from a bunch of youngsters? In this case, 4 more years might be just long enough to learn how to control and win tough games the smart/hard way rather than rely on the Beale/Ioane/JOC (James O'Connor)/Cooper miracle.

 

[glider]

Well you would have to say that after 3 years or more of rebuilding there is something wrong. its not really about players playing out of position - they are all capable. Its about turning up to play and having some guts and pride in the jersey. Cooper was asleep in the Anthem and showed that by kicking out first up. Our attacking play is awful - christ we have a coach for everything these days - where is or who is the attacking coach? Are we afraid to throw the ball around constructively, have we forgotten how to make or create an overlap. You only had to watch the league yesterday to see how to create space and attack from set piece footy. So lets say that Union has become a lot like league with advantage line tackling and set piece opportunity - then sure as hell we need a league coach to show them how to make second man play and throw short loop passes for people running into the gap. Honestly Rocky looks lost since the changes, Genia's kicking has been hopeless and aimless. And despite this - the AB's didnt really throw in a dominant performance like AB teams of the past and wipe us off the field.

So what happened to the Wallaby team that turned up a couple of weeks ago and beat the AB's - all missing in action - at least mentally. the whole team looked like they didnt want to be there and it kind of felt like they had already conceded.

Something is drastically wrong, they dont look like a team united and its about time they dont get paid for turning up. if the rock start and prima donnas dont like that - then they can piss off to club rugby somewhere in Europe. We want young players who have absolutely got pride in the Wallaby Jersey and they get paid performance bonus for putting the game on the paddock and winning.

As a long time player and supporter of rugby - Im sick of hearing the quasi intelligent debriefs at press conferences and hearing all the feel good motherhood terms tossed around each time we lose. Forget the analysis - its about time you either play the game or get out of the way.

I pretty much agree with the list posted here abouts - only about 6 or 7 who really deserve to keep their spots. Everything else is open.

if QC (Quade Cooper) wants to go to league - that would be good - they might teach him how to tackle.

Gliders 2 cents worth