Not really the thread for it, but I can't make threads anyway. Where do people think we are in the world now. We are clearly well behind the ABs. However, are we really the head of a following pack? I would rate us slightly above the Boks, not because we won the quarter, but purely because they are an older side that are more likely to go through a rebuilding phase from here (Matfield being a huge loss for my mind). However, Wales are on the upward trajectory and are young. Guess we will see where we sit with them this weekend. For all that people are bagging the French, they are in the final, we aren't. Ireland beat us, but again, they are an older side and are about to lose some champion players (O'Driscoll obviously). England will be dangerous once they work through their own bureaucratic issues.
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I still think we are the second best side in the World. France are probably the worst team ever to make a RWC final. They have been awful pretty much all tournament. Wales are definitely on the up and will be a real contender in four years time.
It needs to be remembered that this All Black team is pretty much the most successful rugby team ever.
It needs to be remembered that this All Black team is pretty much the most successful rugby team ever.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
After playing under such a manifestly incompetent coaching group as govern the Wallabies today, and having seen the playing standards of many of his best players stagnate or deteriorate under it, Links's biggest concern today will how to reignite and rebuild the confidence of his key (Wallaby) Reds for 2012. Thank God Tapuai didn't get dragged into the endless churn of Deans' latest centres' theory and the resulting execution debacles that came from it, Taps is a talent now best left to Link and MacKay for some considerable time. There is not a single Wallaby player that has genuinely developed over the 2010-11 Wallaby seasons under Deans.
I agree that we were up against a champion All Black side. They will lose a few key cogs between now and the next World Cup too, so will probably come back to the pack a bit (although their production line is amazing). But Carter, McCaw, Thorn, Mealamu, Nonu, Woodcock. They had the experienced, battle hardened team this Cup. We really have a young team with some potential.
aussie1st
Alfred Walker (16)
I'd put Wales 2nd, they should have been in the final and have a very young squad. If Sam wasn't sent off then we would have seen some entertaining footy from them, the fact they managed to play that style against the Irish who usually try and make the game into a forward based game shown the direction they are heading.
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
Cooper - is our best 10. His second half he looked to get things back under control for the first time in a while and this series could prove his making. Sure knocked the arrogance out of him and a few others that needed it. We'll see how he recovers and is performing after the first month of super rugby to see how he will bounce back. If he doesnt perform next test season then sorry Quade, you have to go. Also should be told he won't be there if he only signs for 1 season again.
Genia - what is with the box kicks? Not on Ioanes wing who is our worst outside back in the air. And slowing the ball down at the base of the rucks. He must have been told by the coaches to do this but why? Several occasions we have lost ball to counter rucks with him standing there looking at it. Best in the world at times though.
Centres - Horne, Barnes and OConnor. I was a fan of the 2 crashball tough as nails prior to WC. Not anymore. Those 3 are still excellent in defense, but so much more potent on attack. And they can pass, sorry AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) you arent here for this reason.
Outside backs - Beale, Mitchell, Ioane. Beale was our best at times. Mitchell should be there instead of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) who is the perfect bench player. Ioane, lay off did him no good but he at least looked very good the few opportunities after coming back, world class, has to be there.
Front row - as has been said they need to toughen the fark up with the exception of Moore. Robinson, Kepu and Slipper going forward
Locks - we are probably as well set here as anywhere.
Loose 3 - Pocock take a bow. The other 2 positions we have big problems going forward. Samo had a great game in Bris but then showed he wasnt really up to it and wont be there next year anyway. Elsom had better get his shit together or Higgers and Dennis should be given a real chance next season. By a real chance i mean a a few tests in the run on, not off the bench. How does McCalman get so many chances to prove his worth and others dont? That leaves our 8, who knows? Hope Palu is fit and see who the next best performer is in super rugby.
Coach and staff - should be sacked. Wont be. Should resign? yes, but that wont happen either. Someone in the ARU needs to get the balls to call ONeill out on the Dingo reappointment or tell the assistants they have to go. One or the other at the very least.
Australia vs Wales in WC 2015 final.
Genia - what is with the box kicks? Not on Ioanes wing who is our worst outside back in the air. And slowing the ball down at the base of the rucks. He must have been told by the coaches to do this but why? Several occasions we have lost ball to counter rucks with him standing there looking at it. Best in the world at times though.
Centres - Horne, Barnes and OConnor. I was a fan of the 2 crashball tough as nails prior to WC. Not anymore. Those 3 are still excellent in defense, but so much more potent on attack. And they can pass, sorry AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) you arent here for this reason.
Outside backs - Beale, Mitchell, Ioane. Beale was our best at times. Mitchell should be there instead of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) who is the perfect bench player. Ioane, lay off did him no good but he at least looked very good the few opportunities after coming back, world class, has to be there.
Front row - as has been said they need to toughen the fark up with the exception of Moore. Robinson, Kepu and Slipper going forward
Locks - we are probably as well set here as anywhere.
Loose 3 - Pocock take a bow. The other 2 positions we have big problems going forward. Samo had a great game in Bris but then showed he wasnt really up to it and wont be there next year anyway. Elsom had better get his shit together or Higgers and Dennis should be given a real chance next season. By a real chance i mean a a few tests in the run on, not off the bench. How does McCalman get so many chances to prove his worth and others dont? That leaves our 8, who knows? Hope Palu is fit and see who the next best performer is in super rugby.
Coach and staff - should be sacked. Wont be. Should resign? yes, but that wont happen either. Someone in the ARU needs to get the balls to call ONeill out on the Dingo reappointment or tell the assistants they have to go. One or the other at the very least.
Australia vs Wales in WC 2015 final.
I think Dave Dennis and Ben Mowen are the two most likely players to push for the number 8 spot going forward. I don't think Timani would have the speed to play there.
A
All Black Magic
Guest
Firstly, congratulations to the Wallabies for very good sportsmanship after the game -especially James O'Conner.
The Wallabies put a very big effort into the game and you can see that by looking at the scoreboard when it was 11-6 despite lack of ball.
Going forward ,I would say develop the front row.
Have a look round for more front row talent first to compliment the already good second row and loose forwards that Australia has.
Will Genia is probably the world's best ,but if the pack goes backwards then he can't play.
The Australian backs are great-fast and elusive.
Just need that tight 5 to go forward.
The Wallabies put a very big effort into the game and you can see that by looking at the scoreboard when it was 11-6 despite lack of ball.
Going forward ,I would say develop the front row.
Have a look round for more front row talent first to compliment the already good second row and loose forwards that Australia has.
Will Genia is probably the world's best ,but if the pack goes backwards then he can't play.
The Australian backs are great-fast and elusive.
Just need that tight 5 to go forward.
Must admit, not convinced either of them have the size for it. Seems that these days you need a line breaking no.8 near to the 120kg mark. Still, not easy to find one of those. At least, not one who is also relatively mobile, good hands and jump in the line out. If it was, we would already have one.
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Untill CLiffy Palu maintains fitness, number 8 is going to be a massive issue for the Wallabies.
Samo and McCalman just don't cut it, and Higginbotham is definatly more of a blindside.
Apart from Pocock, who carried his sides efforts in all the games he played, the backrow was poor. We can't rely on BamBam to do everything.
Samo and McCalman just don't cut it, and Higginbotham is definatly more of a blindside.
Apart from Pocock, who carried his sides efforts in all the games he played, the backrow was poor. We can't rely on BamBam to do everything.
Mowen is 6'5 and 115kg. Dennis is 6'4 and 113kg. I really don't think these guys are far off the mark from the size of number 8 that we need.
As far as I'm concerned, these two guys are the most likely candidates for our Number 8 over the next four years. I think both of them are better ball runners than McCalman or Brown.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
Cheers ABM, the thoughts are appreciated.
I only disagree about the quality of our backline play. For me, the lack of known combinations has contributed to a backline that just hasn't fired in a long time. We need to figure out who we want to be, what the plan is, and how to execute it. We're a fair way off that right now.
Gotta agree with you there. I think both McCalman and Brown look like good Super Rugby players who have never quite looked the goods at Test level. Step up has proved to big for them. Good workrate, but just don't make the impact.
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Mowen and Dennis struggle to break into the starting side on a consistent basis for their club, and now they should be considered for national selection? No Thanks
If you read back over previous posts, I was pointing to the fact that I consider these two guys as the likely number 8 candidates to develop over the next year or so.
I think they have the size and ball running ability and improved greatly over the 2011 season. They're also at the right age that they will be viable options at the next RWC. I also think they offer more from Number 8 than either Ben McCalman or Richard Brown.
Who do you see as our future number 8 options?
I think they have the size and ball running ability and improved greatly over the 2011 season. They're also at the right age that they will be viable options at the next RWC. I also think they offer more from Number 8 than either Ben McCalman or Richard Brown.
Who do you see as our future number 8 options?
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
To be honest, right now it is a major weak point. Palu is the only one I consider international quality, but he has barley played in 2 years.
Jake Shatz is one for the future, but that's still 3 or so years away. I honestly cannot think of anyone who'd be up to international quality.
Dennis is a possibility to be developed though, as you said.
Jake Shatz is one for the future, but that's still 3 or so years away. I honestly cannot think of anyone who'd be up to international quality.
Dennis is a possibility to be developed though, as you said.
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