Shute Shield 2018

[wamberal]

I have not seen any decisions.

 

[the coach]

Any steps that are taken to "equalise" the distribution of playing strength will have to be strictly on a voluntary basis. That will never happen, until it is too late.

I seem to remember Mark Frost moved across to the Two Blues for a season a few years ago when they were threatened with extinction. He was still a fringe first grader at the Woodies at the time. Not sure what his motivation was, but many assumed he was trying to help a struggling club. Maybe the players need to contribute? Wishful thinking I suppose.

 

[the coach]

Chicken and egg, mate. As Paul Keating so famously said, and I paraphrase, if you want to know which horse will win, back self-interest.



The only thing that will unite the various parties is the threat of the gallows. And even then, I suspect that the stronger clubs would keep on pursuing their own selfish interests until the bitter end.



People can gabble on about the grass roots until the cows come home. The simple fact remains, the rich cows will graze in green pastures, and the poor ones can go to buggery. The grass roots exist, of course, but they are not evenly distributed, and they do thrive, again, only in certain areas. What else do people expect? Magic fertiliser from above?

Paul Keating was actually quoting his hero Jack Lang who said: "In the race of life, always back self-interest; at least you know it's trying." I still think the points cap could work in distributing the talent more widely but, as you've suggested, ALL the clubs have to agree to work towards an effective system as they have to agree to any changes. My understanding is that there seems to be no real interest from the majority of clubs (not just the usual suspects) to make this effective.

 

[wamberal]

At the end of the day, any sort of bureaucratic load is just not what any of the clubs need.


If only we could afford, and could accept, a "Commissioner" who is given the power to make arbitrary decisions for the good of the competition as a whole. The Yanks seem to be able to tolerate this sort of dictatorship in their flagship sports.

 

[Silverado]

The player points system was meant to spread the love, and there appears to be a more even distribution in 1st grade recently. But it's not just the clubs, players need to be willing to travel to Penrith to play, and that's bound to encounter resistance


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[Inside Shoulder]

At the end of the day, any sort of bureaucratic load is just not what any of the clubs need.


If only we could afford, and could accept, a "Commissioner" who is given the power to make arbitrary decisions for the good of the competition as a whole. The Yanks seem to be able to tolerate this sort of dictatorship in their flagship sports.

The owners generally don't appoint people they went went to school with

 

[Dave Beat]

The player points system was meant to spread the love, and there appears to be a more even distribution in 1st grade recently. But it's not just the clubs, players need to be willing to travel to Penrith to play, and that's bound to encounter resistance


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A more even distribution, maybe, maybe not - it was a great season last year. Do you think the levelingout was atune to spreading talent, Or the stronger clubs not getting all their layers of super players back becuase; 1. all the super teams followed the brumbies lead and now keep there players local. 2. the soup and shute finishing close to the same time and now dumping of super talent into clubs. We have also lost a number of very strong premier rugby players off shore,

 

[Silverado]

A more even distribution, maybe, maybe not - it was a great season last year. Do you think the levelingout was atune to spreading talent, Or the stronger clubs not getting all their layers of super players back becuase; 1. all the super teams followed the brumbies lead and now keep there players local. 2. the soup and shute finishing close to the same time and now dumping of super talent into clubs. We have also lost a number of very strong premier rugby players off shore,

A lot of both Dave, but I see that as the SSs role now..developing players for higher honours. I really hate the lack of opportunities in Australian Rugby forcing players OS but I suppose a SS contract won't pay the bills


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[wamberal]

The owners generally don't appoint people they went went to school with

FWIW, I went to school with John Singleton. He and I were at the bottom of the year when the final Leaving Certificate results came out, as it was before the HSC came in. 4 Bs.



He has done better than me, though!!!!

 

[Quick Hands]

Who actually has any governance over SS? Do NSWRU have any say, or is it just SRU? Seems to be one of the big issues, to me.

I think it's just the SRU which is made up of the 12 club presidents (from which they elect a SRU President and Vice President or possibly 2 VPs for the season to run things between monthly meetings).

 

[Quick Hands]

Couple of things,
Firstly the issue is really how to help the Riff to be competitive. As a comp, the SS is strong. Last years Premiers were 11/18 in the regular season, so that's hardly dominant.

Secondly, the comp is still largely amateur, if it's determined that a local Rats players has to transfer to the Riff for the good of the comp, he's more likely to find an alternative to the SS. So SRU directed transfers won't work.

As you rightly point out, the solution requires the goodwill of all the clubs, so it is a bit like herding cats.

And when I said expertise, I should have said credibility.

I don't think that any major sporting league has come close to solving the issue. Even the AFL find it difficult. I agree that it's not possible to direct amateur or even part-time professionals to play at one club or another. It would be possible to direct Waratah contracted players (i.e. full time professionals) to clubs, but you'd need exemptions for local juniors like Michael Hooper and Scott Fardy for example and then how many games would those guys actually play. Interestingly if you look at major overseas football competitions in most codes, there are about a quarter that are nearly always at the top and a quarter nearly always near the bottom and the other half moving between the winners and losers, so in that regard the SS isn't particularly unusual. The only unique feature is that Penrith are so far below even being competitive, they either need full-time support by NSWRU/RA or they need to move down to a level where they would be competitive.

 

[Quick Hands]

Don't understand your proposition.

Surely any organisation assisting someone to undertake study has little to do with the uni. They should be grateful for any supported students sent their way.

And most Unis (if not all) run elite athlete programs to assist athletes in whatever sport with their studies.

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I think you'll find that UWS already have a rugby club, which runs 4 grades and colts and plays out of the old Hawkesbury Agricultural College (now part of UWS) at Richmond. http://uwshawkesbury.rugby.net.au/

 

[The Honey Badger]

I think you'll find that UWS already have a rugby club, which runs 4 grades and colts and plays out of the old Hawkesbury Agricultural College (now part of UWS) at Richmond. http://uwshawkesbury.rugby.net.au/

I am well acquainted with that club.

My suggestion was more along the lines that the Powers that be, let's say it's RA, as they at least have a cheque book, that they fund some scholarships for struggling clubs. For rugby talented school leavers wanting to play and study.

They would have to be pretty attractive, but it would be a way to strengthen the colts program at struggling clubs.

Wouldn't really matter where the recipients choose to study. But UWS might be logical to partner with.

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[dru]

I think it's just the SRU which is made up of the 12 club presidents (from which they elect a SRU President and Vice President or possibly 2 VPs for the season to run things between monthly meetings).

The lack of connection to SS is a blight on RA imo. It’s the largest contributor to professional rugby in Australia and there would appear to be a badically non-existant communication path let alone organisational structure. I still struggle with the concept that “grass roots = shute shield” but if RA cant connect at least that far what hope is there?

 

[southsider]

I am well acquainted with that club.

My suggestion was more along the lines that the Powers that be, let's say it's RA, as they at least have a cheque book, that they fund some scholarships for struggling clubs. For rugby talented school leavers wanting to play and study.

They would have to be pretty attractive, but it would be a way to strengthen the colts program at struggling clubs.

Wouldn't really matter where the recipients choose to study. But UWS might be logical to partner with.

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why limit yourself to people wanting to study though, if you're gonna go down that path you may as well just straight out pay them and get the best ones possible. .

 

[southsider]

I think the best way to do it is have a player pool. AR or whoever is in charge of this theoretical chequebook identifies the top 50-100 players for colts and then grade. These players are then tiered in two divisions tier one, say top 15 then tier two the rest. These players are then able to nominate themselves to the player pool if they feel so inclined, if they are tier 2 they get x amount of $$ if they are tier 1 they get a different x amount of $$. The bottom 6 clubs from the previous year then enter a draft and are able to draft these player pool players into their team while AR pick up the bill

 

[the coach]

I think the best way to do it is have a player pool. AR or whoever is in charge of this theoretical chequebook identifies the top 50-100 players for colts and then grade. These players are then tiered in two divisions tier one, say top 15 then tier two the rest. These players are then able to nominate themselves to the player pool if they feel so inclined, if they are tier 2 they get x amount of $$ if they are tier 1 they get a different x amount of $$. The bottom 6 clubs from the previous year then enter a draft and are able to draft these player pool players into their team while AR pick up the bill

Except that the ARU apparently doesn't have any spare cash.

 

[southsider]

Except that the ARU apparently doesn't have any spare cash.

It’s a hard knock life

 

[Green grass]

I have not seen any decisions.

Yeah either have I. I do wonder what there options are. Be interesting to see what the Woodies end up doing with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Quick Hands]

Except that the ARU apparently doesn't have any spare cash.

Well not to spend on this part of the game anyway. They have enough to give pay rises all round in other areas.