Shute Shield 2011

[HappyHC]

Agree - it is going to be very interesting. So, any early takers on naming a top 6 and bottom six after 22 rounds in order. And picking which two teams will contest the GF? We can always reveiw mid-sesaon - lol. Go on, be brave.

 

[Elfster]

Agree - it is going to be very interesting. So, any early takers on naming a top 6 and bottom six after 22 rounds in order. And picking which two teams will contest the GF? We can always reveiw mid-sesaon - lol. Go on, be brave.

I think the thing is to get in the top 6 and stay there, so you can compete in the finals. In the finals it all changes as you seem to get almost "new" sides playing when various team's rep players come back in (or they grab a couple of Qld players who have finished their season up there.)

It probably shouldn't be done as it is not the players fault, but it would be interesting if only those players with, say, 10 games for the club during the season (barring injuries) were allowed to play in the semis.

If nothing else just to reward consistency...but there are probably just as many issies with this than any other. Some clubs do just naturally attract players. And also if we want to make Shute Shield stronger we don't want to do it be making the strong weak, but by improving the weak.

 

[wamberal]

And also if we want to make Shute Shield stronger we don't want to do it be making the strong weak, but by improving the weak.

That is a very worthy sentiment. However, if the stronger clubs - or club - owe their advantage to circumstances that are just not available to the rest of the competition, how are the "weak" supposed to catch up? Win Lotto?

 

[Rob42]

That is a very worthy sentiment. However, if the stronger clubs - or club - owe their advantage to circumstances that are just not available to the rest of the competition, how are the "weak" supposed to catch up? Win Lotto?

Other clubs are supposed to take advantage of the circumstances available to them - Eastwood, for example, has its own complex at Millner that it doesn't have to share with other sports, Parramatta is at the geographical heart of Sydney and draws on a huge potential population, Penrith likewise is the heart of a rapidly growing area, Gordon and Randwick...are nice places to live, probably. Etc. Uni pulled itself out of a terminal decline by taking advantage of its circumstances - whinging about how other clubs were doing better probably wasn't a key part of their revival.

 

[barbarian]

Yes Rob, but most of Uni's players already live in the 'nice areas' ie. lower North Shore and East, and then take the raft of benefits uni provides them. It's the best of both worlds. I would suggest clubs like Gordon and Norths have been hardest hit by Uni's revival.

 

[I like to watch]

That's so simplistic Rob.
Compare Uni to the Rats, Uni has a capital fund of $2M
The Rat's have a negative net worth.
Uni have a fundraiser where the major auction item raises more than Rat's raise can in a whole function.
The Rats earn no $$ from the gate or even from the canteen on match days.
Then look at Penrith, WTF can they do to spread the word if the ARU won't spend any time & money out there, compare what the ARU spends out there to what the AFL is spending.
It's all well and good to say they should get out there a obtain more sponsorships, but in reality any sponsors in the shute shield are donating money, rather than making a business decision to spend their advertising/marketing spend this way.
Like it or not, there are clearly the haves & the have nots in the Shute Shield.
It does no one any good when one of the haves poach Colts from the have nots by providing substantial financial incentives.

 

[lily]

Can we all agree that Uni have been able to do very well for themselves recently. Can we also agree that the majority of young footballers are whoring themselves out to whoever will give them the best chance of success. I have a 7 year old son and I am a passionate supporter of the Marlins but if a better opportunity was offered to him with an education as well, as if any of you would keep him at the local club. You only would if his grades got him in on merit.
I hope it will because I will top myself if he plays for Uni.
I dont like Uni but they are not the devil.

 

[Informer]

Can we all agree that Uni have been able to do very well for themselves recently. Can we also agree that the majority of young footballers are whoring themselves out to whoever will give them the best chance of success. I have a 7 year old son and I am a passionate supporter of the Marlins but if a better opportunity was offered to him with an education as well, as if any of you would keep him at the local club. You only would if his grades got him in on merit.
I hope it will because I will top myself if he plays for Uni.
I dont like Uni but they are not the devil.

Guess what? Young players do not whore themselves anywhere. They tend to follow the advice of their parents who until they leave school are the ones who shape their career. What do you think parents are going to do given a choice betweeen an elite program with all the trappings v the local club who try hard but don't cut the mustard? Of course Uni will hands down. Until the other clubs step up it is no contest, Uni wins with the people who count.

 

[Hartman]

Guess what? Young players do not whore themselves anywhere. They tend to follow the advice of their parents who until they leave school are the ones who shape their career. What do you think parents are going to do given a choice betweeen an elite program with all the trappings v the local club who try hard but don't cut the mustard? Of course Uni will hands down. Until the other clubs step up it is no contest, Uni wins with the people who count.

The point is that the other clubs are not physically ABLE to step up. If you can suggest a business plan that would have any other shute shield club financially competing with Uni then you should let them know... maybe you can be their new GM.

 

[CarlUnger]

Agree - it is going to be very interesting. So, any early takers on naming a top 6 and bottom six after 22 rounds in order. And picking which two teams will contest the GF? We can always reveiw mid-sesaon - lol. Go on, be brave.

Fairly safe bets. Very lazily picked though, not quite taking into account alot of the changes with the clubs in the off season.

1. Uni
2. Randwick
3. Eastwood
4. Manly
5. Warringah
6. Southern Districts
7. Eastern Suburbs
8. Northern Suburbs
9. Gordon
10. Parramatta
11. West Harbour
12. Penrith

Final: Uni vs Randwick (AGAIN)

 

[lily]

Guess what? Young players do not whore themselves anywhere. They tend to follow the advice of their parents who until they leave school are the ones who shape their career. What do you think parents are going to do given a choice betweeen an elite program with all the trappings v the local club who try hard but don't cut the mustard? Of course Uni will hands down. Until the other clubs step up it is no contest, Uni wins with the people who count.

Tax payer funded facilities versus profits from the bar and bbq. YOU and the rest of the elitist snobs need to realise that the other clubs cant STEP UP as you put it whilst there is such a disparity. Also I should have said the parents and players whore themselves. Loyalty goodbye.

 

[Drew]

Guess what? Young players do not whore themselves anywhere. They tend to follow the advice of their parents who until they leave school are the ones who shape their career. What do you think parents are going to do given a choice between an elite program with all the trappings v the local club who try hard but don't cut the mustard? Of course Uni will hands down. Until the other clubs step up it is no contest, Uni wins with the people who count.

Just to flog a dead horse some more, when you guys support a local junior competition then you can talk about cutting the mustard. It is the type of parents who tell their kid to go with the better program instead of the ones that taught them rugby as youngsters who should be taken out back and shot. Just because it happens doesn't make it a good for anyone but you and weakens the broader base of rugby.

 

[Elfster]

Fairly safe bets. Very lazily picked though, not quite taking into account alot of the changes with the clubs in the off season.

1. Uni
2. Randwick
3. Eastwood
4. Manly
5. Warringah
6. Southern Districts
7. Eastern Suburbs
8. Northern Suburbs
9. Gordon
10. Parramatta
11. West Harbour
12. Penrith

Final: Uni vs Randwick (AGAIN)

Southern Districts at 6? I would have them slightly higher. The rest looks quite good though. Perhaps one thing we should ask, is thatwill thee be any large thrashings this year.

 

[wamberal]

Other clubs are supposed to take advantage of the circumstances available to them - Eastwood, for example, has its own complex at Millner that it doesn't have to share with other sports.

Eastwood's ground is as much a financial drain as it is a benefit. And it is all owed to the generosity of one man, plus an army of volunteers (of which I was one, albeit not very effective, as a very young boy).

 

[HappyHC]

Yes - I think there will be the odd flogging here and there. But not to the degree we saw in 2010 when Parramatta was battling hard for survival. With little knowledge of Shute Shield Rugby here is a rough stab at finishing spots.

1. Southern Districts
2. Eastern Suburbs
3. Uni
4. Manly
5. Eastwood
6. Randwick
7. Warringah
8. Parramatta
9. Northern Suburbs
10. West Harbour
11. Gordon
12. Penrith

GF - Southern Districts v Uni

 

[barbarian]

Tax payer funded facilities versus profits from the bar and bbq. YOU and the rest of the elitist snobs need to realise that the other clubs cant STEP UP as you put it whilst there is such a disparity. Also I should have said the parents and players whore themselves. Loyalty goodbye.

So you are saying that if you were a school graduate and someone from Sydney Uni approached you and said 'Hey mate, if you come and play for Uni we can make your uni degree a piece of piss, throw in free membership to a state of the art gym, top quality physio and medical care, help you out financially with on-site accomodation or rental properties and surround you with other top quality players' you would seriously say 'no, I played under 12s with Gordon so I am sticking with them'???


Why should we hold TEENAGERS to the same standards that we do professional rugby players? A lot of these guys don't have their sights set on going pro anyway, just want to get the best platform for their careers.

And Drew, don't think you can get away spouting rubbish like this:

It is the type of parents who tell their kid to go with the better program instead of the ones that taught them rugby as youngsters who should be taken out back and shot

Why wouldn't a parent want their child to get a leg up in getting a degree from a top university?

I think we should stop blaming the boys and parents for making a choice which will benefit them in so many ways other than just rugby. We should also cut Uni some slack for merely playing the cards that they have been dealt for being a top notch uni with plenty of cash. As ParraGM pointed out the blame should lie with the NSWRU who have sat back and allowed this to happen for years, and even exacerbated its effect by allowing non-Sydney based marquee players to sign with Uni.

 

[I like to watch]

That's a pretty good summation Barb.
You cannot blame the kids/parents, they are accepting a lifetime opportunity not just a Rugby pathway.
And despite my moaning you can't blame Uni for leveraging all their advantages.
But common sense says that if Uni continue with their predatory recruitment, in a few years the large gap between them & the weaker 5 or 6 Clubs will make it untenable.
You are right that the NSWRU need to be more pro active.
NRL has salary caps, AFL has the draft. We have Uni getting stronger at the expense of the weaker clubs that need protection.

 

[AussieDominance]

http://north-shore-times.whereilive.com.au/sport/story/former-sevens-stars-set-to-boost-brothers/

Vinnie Byrne gone from Gordon. Tom Sully was around last season but wasn't great Gordon need a half.... Justin Turner most likely won't play I would think.

 

[Parra GM]

That's a pretty good summation Barb.
You cannot blame the kids/parents, they are accepting a lifetime opportunity not just a Rugby pathway.
And despite my moaning you can't blame Uni for leveraging all their advantages.
But common sense says that if Uni continue with their predatory recruitment, in a few years the large gap between them & the weaker 5 or 6 Clubs will make it untenable.
You are right that the NSWRU need to be more pro active.
NRL has salary caps, AFL has the draft. We have Uni getting stronger at the expense of the weaker clubs that need protection.

As I mentioned earlier, you can't blame Uni. They worked out how to exploit their strengths to their best advantage and then most importantly...............delivered it. You also can't blame the kids/parents. I am a parent and I too would jump at an opportunity to give my kid a leg up. After all, I dont want them throwing bricks for a living like I did. My beef is with the powers that be that allow an unfair advantage to continue. And as I mentioned earlier as well, dominance is killing the competition. The 1986 Grand Final at Concord had 18,000 jam packed into the place. The 2010 grand final had 5500 (and was apparently inflated too ). With the population in Sydney having grown by over a million people in that 24 years, it defies logic that the crowd at the showcase event of the club rugby season was actually reduced by 300% (that an estimate guys, my maths aint that flash!!!). It shows that the competition has in fact declined over that period of time. Surely someone running the comp has to ask why?

The club game has declined significantly and NOTHING is being done about it. And 2012 is a massive concern. With NONE of the Super Rugby players coming back to Shute Shield the sponsors will walk away in droves. And Uni must be rubbing their hands together! Once the sponsors go, EVERY club other than Uni will revert back to being completely amateur......except one

 

[Elfster]

The club game has declined significantly and NOTHING is being done about it. And 2012 is a massive concern. With NONE of the Super Rugby players coming back to Shute Shield the sponsors will walk away in droves.

None of them coming back? That sounds dangerous...like the Australian Cricket team, with few test players playing in the Sheffield Shield. It gets hard to compare players when they don't play each other. Players start to get picked on reputation and because they were in the side the previous year.

And it is just not good for the game...Rugby does have some tradition and the ethos of able to play with all and sundry at various levels. I would have thought the strength of Rugby is derived from the bottom and that feeds the top levels.