Should The Wallabies be doing a Bumala-y Yuurrama-y?

[ChargerWA]

^^ Make it a shitty, discordant recording, like this old chestnut:

Off topic, but this video above reminded me of this from last week.

After I saw it in the morning I was just in a good mood all day.

http://time.com/3969202/tuba-kkk-march-ku-klux-klan-sousaphone/

 

[liquor box]

Yup. A recognition of the traditional owners of the land - Wurundjeri for Melbourne, the Gadigal for Sydney, Turball for Brisbane etc. - is all that's needed I think.

I am not Aboriginal but feel that my family has played a part in Australia.

My families has had land taken by the government, many years ago we owned Yarralumla and this was bought/taken to build Government House.

I do not pretend to understand the pain of having my country invaded by another country like the Aboriginals had occur to them but why should I as an Australian go to support an Australian representative team and not be recognised as an Australian.

Recognition of traditional owners of the country is divisive, it is a great concept but also divides the nation based on race. We should be one nation and one people.

Why not recognise all Australian no matter how new to the country they are, lets celebrate that Australia is made up of many different people but we come together to cheer us on to destroy a common enemy in New Zealand

 

[ChargerWA]

I am not Aboriginal but feel that my family has played a part in Australia.

My families has had land taken by the government, many years ago we owned Yarralumla and this was bought/taken to build Government House.

I do not pretend to understand the pain of having my country invaded by another country like the Aboriginals had occur to them but why should I as an Australian go to support an Australian representative team and not be recognised as an Australian.

Recognition of traditional owners of the country is divisive, it is a great concept but also divides the nation based on race. We should be one nation and one people.

Why not recognise all Australian no matter how new to the country they are, lets celebrate that Australia is made up of many different people but we come together to cheer us on to destroy a common enemy in New Zealand

You're not getting the point. The Caucasian All Black players OWN the Haka as much as the players with Maori heritage. It is part of their common history.

The Bumala-y Yuurrama-y while Aboriginal in heritage, could be owned by all Australians.

White Australians just need to get over who invented it and embrace it as a gift of unity. From the articles we are seeing from indigenous Australians, it's a gift they are keen for us to embrace

 

[southsider]

You're not getting the point. The Caucasian All Black players OWN the Haka as much as the players with Maori heritage. It is part of their common history.

The Bumala-y Yuurrama-y while Aboriginal in heritage, could be owned by all Australians.

White Australians just need to get over who invented it and embrace it as a gift of unity. From the articles we are seeing from indigenous Australians, it's a gift they are keen for us to embrace

in the nicest possible way.....i dont really want it........to be honest i dont get the whole cultural thing at all, i couldnt tell you where my ancestors came from because they've been in australia that many generations and quite frankly i dont care. We are all Austalian and thats all that really matters, if people of aboriginal decent want to keep their traditions etc alive good on them but let them do it and they can do it in their own time we are at the footy to watch footy, we play footy to play footy, plain and simple.

 

[drop kick]

i couldnt tell you where my ancestors came from because they've been in australia that many generations

Unless you are descended from Aboriginal people your ancestors haven't been here that long!

 

[drop kick]

Here is a link to a positive article about the dance Adam Goodes did. Worth a read.
http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/nitv-new...ar-cry-used-boomerang-not-spear-choreographer

Also on ABC news this morning Warren Mundine was calling for sporting teams to adopt a Bumalay Yuurramay. There is obviously growing support for this in Aboriginal communities.

 

[drop kick]

And another (sobering) article from a former SBS journalist.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/08/05/truly-goodes-thing/

It ends with this:
"
Next Saturday night, the Wallabies will play the All Blacks in Sydney. Traditionally, the All Blacks will perform their fierce, bloodletting pre-match Haka, yes a Maori war dance or challenge which in Maoritanga demands a response.
There are two versions they now perform: ‘Ka Mate, Ka Mate’ or ‘Kapa o Pango’. The latter culminates in a slit-your-throat motion, a public death threat to the Wallabies no less.
Likely some 75,000 mostly Australians will politely applaud or even enjoy it.
Surely there is a double standard here? They boo Adam Goodes for cutting an innocuous couple of moves and throwing an imaginary spear, and yet they applaud the All Blacks for expressing their intention to do so against their national rugby union team.
I would love to see Kurtley Beale, in solidarity with Adam Goodes next Saturday at ANZ Stadium, stand tall in front of the Wallabies and on behalf of all Australians respond to the challenge of the Haka exactly as it should be responded to: chuck an imaginary spear at ‘em.
I suspect that long-overdue response would be greeted with rapturous applause and possibly put a prompt and timely end to the booing of Adam Goodes. Call it healing.
Besides, what wonderful, meaning-filled theatre it would make."

One of the people who comment on the article says:
"The AFL has an opportunity here. It can stand up and show the way for Australian society by proudly proclaiming Adam Goodes is a leading example for all Australians, of which the Aboriginal people are a valued part, and that his culture is not just Aboriginal culture, but Australian culture."
The same goes for Rugby Union, let's lead on this issue.

 

[RugbyReg]

And another (sobering) article from a former SBS journalist.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/08/05/truly-goodes-thing/

It ends with this:
"
They boo Adam Goodes for cutting an innocuous couple of moves and throwing an imaginary spear, and yet they applaud the All Blacks for expressing their intention to do so against their national rugby union team.

what a load of crap. Such lazy generalising journalism.

In saying that, whilst I don't agree with KB (Kurtley Beale) returning serve on his own post-haka, I would LOVE for him to score a try and break out a Goodes-like celebration. I honestly reckon the place would go nuts if he did.

Especially if we were winning.

 

[southsider]

Unless you are descended from Aboriginal people your ancestors haven't been here that long!

That's a very subjective statement, if someone's family came out on the first fleet or even a few generations back I'd consider that a long time. Doesn't really matter though does it? If that's the part of my post you question then I feel like I made my point quite well. Like I said previously I haven't the foggiest where my ancestors came from, they could be aboriginal, I really don't care either way if I want culture I'll go to a museum not a footy match

 

[Train Without a Station]

what a load of crap. Such lazy generalising journalism.

I hate that generalization that the same people to boo Goodes applaud the haka. I highly doubt many of the same people would attend both events, and those that do would be Swans supports so pretty unlikely to boo Goodes.

 

[Bullrush]

That's a very subjective statement, if someone's family came out on the first fleet or even a few generations back I'd consider that a long time. Doesn't really matter though does it? If that's the part of my post you question then I feel like I made my point quite well. Like I said previously I haven't the foggiest where my ancestors came from, they could be aboriginal, I really don't care either way if I want culture I'll go to a museum not a footy match

This is one of the key differences between NZ and Aus when it comes to indigenous peoples. While we are far from 'there', I think there is a far better understanding and acknowledgement in NZ of the special place Maori have in our society. While we may all be Kiwis, Maori are the indigenous people of the land and have a relationship with Aotearoa that may always be unique.

I don't think that divides or seperates us but instead, actually helps bring our diverse cultures together. The ABs pre-game haka is a perfect example of men who come from all different walks of life and different cultures and ethnicities but join together in something that is uniquely and specifically 'ours'.

When you see the passion and the pride there is from Samaons, white kiwis, Fijians, Tongans....all participating in the haka - it really is something quite beautiful.

 

[southsider]

This is one of the key differences between NZ and Aus when it comes to indigenous peoples. While we are far from 'there', I think there is a far better understanding and acknowledgement in NZ of the special place Maori have in our society. While we may all be Kiwis, Maori are the indigenous people of the land and have a relationship with Aotearoa that may always be unique
I don't think that divides or seperates us but instead, actually helps bring our diverse cultures together. The ABs pre-game haka is a perfect example of men who come from all different walks of life and different cultures and ethnicities but join together in something that is uniquely and specifically 'ours'.

When you see the passion and the pride there is from Samaons, white kiwis, Fijians, Tongans..all participating in the haka - it really is something quite beautiful.

Totally understand what you are saying just not for me or for a lot of non aboriginal Australians haha

I hate the term indigenous though, ever looked it up? Any person that is born in Australia can be considered indigenous. I am a indigenous Australian just like the fella down the road who was born in this country but have parents born overseas

 

[Scoey]

This is one of the key differences between NZ and Aus when it comes to indigenous peoples. While we are far from 'there', I think there is a far better understanding and acknowledgement in NZ of the special place Maori have in our society. While we may all be Kiwis, Maori are the indigenous people of the land and have a relationship with Aotearoa that may always be unique.

I don't think that divides or seperates us but instead, actually helps bring our diverse cultures together. The ABs pre-game haka is a perfect example of men who come from all different walks of life and different cultures and ethnicities but join together in something that is uniquely and specifically 'ours'.

When you see the passion and the pride there is from Samaons, white kiwis, Fijians, Tongans..all participating in the haka - it really is something quite beautiful.

I don't know how the fuck we get there, but this is what I wish we were like in Australia. It's so sad that we appear to be going the other way.

 

[Ignoto]

Just curious as I have essentially no knowledge in this realm of life. If we look at it from an Aboriginal perspective, would the bulk of them be happy about a bunch of white guys performing the dance?

There's a lot of tension between Anglo-Saxon's and the Aboriginals, so much so I couldn't really see those with a connection to these types of dances being happy or appreciative of it being 'tarnished'.

It seems that jumping right into performing a dance isn't going to help from either side. Slow steps of teaching and being appreciative of their culture seems to be the way forward, where eventually the population would hopefully be more receptive to incorporating a war dance.

I just wonder, if we get to such a utopia stage, whether there will be enough aboriginal's in our culture that we'd even feel a connection? While I don't have the stats handy, I'd imagine their population count is dropping at a pretty alarming rate. Wither Anglo-Saxons living longer and longer and the variety of immigrants coming to our land, the original owners seem to be getting smaller and smaller each year.

 

[kiap]

I'd imagine their population count is dropping

It's actually rising.

 

[p.Tah]

For interest, there are 600,000 Maoris in New Zealand. There are 700,000 Aborigines and 650,000 kiwis living in Australia.

 

[kiap]

I don't know how the fuck we get there, but this is what I wish we were like in Australia. It's so sad that we appear to be going the other way.

I can see a few ways this might happen, even after gainsaying an add-on haka at the top of this thread (haven't clicked on the poll).

There would need to be an impetus from players; it's not something that can be imposed from above. If players get fully on board then a window might open.

And while this is a rugby forum, rugby is not the national code. The players I have in mind are the Sydney Swans; their fans and the city have the cause to get behind it.

So the club decides to develop something over the next month while continuing to play with good form into September. They progress to the Grand Final to play against Hawthorne, Freo or ... let's just say ... West Coast. Then Sydney opens the MCG with a fully choreographed and fearsome AusHaka with Adam Goodes leading proceedings.

That could be a scenario for the believers and to break the issue through.

 

[Train Without a Station]

This is one of the key differences between NZ and Aus when it comes to indigenous peoples. While we are far from 'there', I think there is a far better understanding and acknowledgement in NZ of the special place Maori have in our society. While we may all be Kiwis, Maori are the indigenous people of the land and have a relationship with Aotearoa that may always be unique.

I don't think that divides or seperates us but instead, actually helps bring our diverse cultures together. The ABs pre-game haka is a perfect example of men who come from all different walks of life and different cultures and ethnicities but join together in something that is uniquely and specifically 'ours'.

When you see the passion and the pride there is from Samaons, white kiwis, Fijians, Tongans..all participating in the haka - it really is something quite beautiful.

BR just out of curiosity what portion of NZ residents have some Maori lineage.

I guess where I'm getting at its somewhat easier to get that connection to something if you actually have that connection.

Perhaps I'm incorrect but my view and understanding is that Australia is a much more diverse culture where so many of the citizens have so many more different origins.

Not saying Aboriginal origins are any less important than Maori origins are in NZ, but more so noting that there are just a lot more different cultural origins that a very large number of Australians have.

 

[liquor box]

Here is a link to a positive article about the dance Adam Goodes did. Worth a read.
http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/nitv-new...ar-cry-used-boomerang-not-spear-choreographer

Also on ABC news this morning Warren Mundine was calling for sporting teams to adopt a Bumalay Yuurramay. There is obviously growing support for this in Aboriginal communities.

I wonder if a non Aboriginal player did not take part as they did not want to offend if they would be called racist?

I think it would be wedge politics, if you take part you are taking advantage of the Aboriginal culture, if you don't you are racist.

 

[ChargerWA]

in the nicest possible way...i dont really want it....to be honest i dont get the whole cultural thing at all, i couldnt tell you where my ancestors came from because they've been in australia that many generations and quite frankly i dont care. We are all Austalian and thats all that really matters, if people of aboriginal decent want to keep their traditions etc alive good on them but let them do it and they can do it in their own time we are at the footy to watch footy, we play footy to play footy, plain and simple.

Then go to the footy and ignore the parts which aren't relevant to you.

Luckily most people don't revel in wilful ignorance.