Should The Wallabies be doing a Bumala-y Yuurrama-y?

[Dan54]

BR just out of curiosity what portion of NZ residents have some Maori lineage.

I guess where I'm getting at its somewhat easier to get that connection to something if you actually have that connection.

Perhaps I'm incorrect but my view and understanding is that Australia is a much more diverse culture where so many of the citizens have so many more different origins.

Not saying Aboriginal origins are any less important than Maori origins are in NZ, but more so noting that there are just a lot more different cultural origins that a very large number of Australians have. )

Actually Train, there would be as many diverse cultures, or origins as Australia. But you are correct in saying that perhaps a bigger portion of NZ residents have some Maori lineage, which I think is great. I don't have any Maori lineage that I know of, but am still very proud of our culture, and do consider myself Tangata Whenua, which means of this land. I don't feel I have any other culture but NZ's and so identify strongly with NZ/Maori culture than English. I look forward to the day when everyone says the Haka etc is a NZ (or Aoteraroa) challenge, not a maori one. I sorry for getting off track, have kept out of whether Australia should do anything or not, as I feel it has to be something that majority have to embrace, and from what I read or heard when people discuss it, it maybe some time away.

 

[Muglair]

Always need to be careful talking about traditions etc.

I presume nowadays, like Australia, there is a lot of mixed blood in NZ with people from all over the place marrying or otherwise having children together. How many Maoris are represented across Super Rugby and in the All Blacks? I don't know and it does not really matter I think. There is certainly a large preponderance of islanders in NZ, who have been there for generations.

As for the Haka, it has only become the highly choreographed spectacle it is in recent times. The definition of awkward probably better fits the predominantly white All Black teams of decades past stumbling through one. An All Black once told me they used to have a quick practice a couple of days before the test with not much real interest in it. It shows.

It is here to stay but it should remain an anomaly in international rugby. Everyone will eventually have a pre game ritual and half time entertainment will have a new challenger for the day's low point.

On the other hand imagine the possibilities. A guillotine wheeled out at ANZ Stadium to behead a wallaby. The poms throwing darts at a life size cut out of Will Skelton. The Scots could wear kilts, paint their faces, and charge. Of course that could only happen if everyone was as hare brained as the ARU.

 

[Muglair]

On a serious note, lets not forget about the football. The Wallabies are playing the best team on the planet on Saturday, some are saying the best team that has been on the planet. Their focus needs to be on the team and on their own performance. I am not sure that unleashing responses to the haka when scoring a try is a great idea.

Adam Goodes is in the twilight of his career. He can contemplate how he uses the position he has won in the sport to advance a cause that is extremely important to him. It is not a position he so prominently took in the height of his powers although I am sure he must have been very forthright in his beliefs etc. His focus then was probably on his team and his performance first. For various reasons I do not think it would be even possible for him to retreat to that position now. Or necessary. At best we might say it has taken the Swans ten years to get this far.

A bit unfair to expect the Wallabies to get that all under control by Saturday. Talk of KB (Kurtley Beale) should do this and KB (Kurtley Beale) should do that is very unfair, especially on this website where he usually has minority support. He looks to me to be in a good place at the moment and his cameo against Argentina was sensational. I am hoping he has a great game on Saturday if he gets on the field. I would hate for him to be distracted by the expectations of others who have no stake in the game.

Sorry, had to correct that last sentence, there really is no such thing as free speech.

 

[Bullrush]

BR just out of curiosity what portion of NZ residents have some Maori lineage.

I guess where I'm getting at its somewhat easier to get that connection to something if you actually have that connection.

Perhaps I'm incorrect but my view and understanding is that Australia is a much more diverse culture where so many of the citizens have so many more different origins.

Not saying Aboriginal origins are any less important than Maori origins are in NZ, but more so noting that there are just a lot more different cultural origins that a very large number of Australians have.

I couldn't tell you to be honest - I personally don't have any BUT I do feel a connection to Maori-dom simply because I am a kiwi born-and-raised. It would probably be a hell of a lot more than Australians with Aboriginal origins I'd guess.

Not long after I moved here, there was the big story of Timana Tahu walking out on the NSW Origin camp because of racist comments made by Joey Johns. I remember listening in disbelief as people bagged him and said he should harden up and that it was just 'the game' etc etc. It was a big eye-opener for me on what racism looks like in Australia and I've since come to this conclusion.

"Racism' isn't the huge problem - it's more like ignorance. People take the attitude that Indigenous Australians, Aboriginals, First Peoples - whatever the term you like is - have no special or unique place in Australia and so long as they were born here, or lived here for a long time, they're just the same as them.

They're not.

When you look at all the injustices and crimes committed against this people over the last couple of centuries (and even up to today in some cases) all in their own land, then no - you are not the same.

To me, part of the healing that needs to happen is that Australia, and Australians, need to recognise and acknowledge that this people will hold a special place and a unique relationship with the country for quite a while yet to come and be OK with that. Allowing that doesn't make everyone else any LESS Australian, in fact, when they embrace that unique part of Australian culture (and be welcomed to do so and feel OK that it's alright no matter if they are white, black, red - whatever) they are actually MORE Australian.

I have performed the haka on a number of occasions and while I'm not Maori at all, I still feel like it is part of MY culture and heritage as a NEW ZEALANDER. I try to embrace the Maori culture as much as possible and by and large, I am embraced by it.

I find it funny when so many white Australians complain and moan about people who come here (usually 'boat people') who they say are un-willing to embrace the 'Australian' culture and learn they aren't in 'insert country here' anymore. And in the next breath put down guys like Goodes and his war dance.

You cannot choose where you are born or what ethnicity you are but we can choose how we interact, respect and treat each other. It's not that hard really.

RANT OVER - I think - lol

 

[cyclopath]

^^^^^
Quality rant, but!

 

[Tex]

Great rant, end the thread.

 

[Groucho]

I find it funny when so many white Australians complain and moan about people who come here (usually 'boat people') who they say are un-willing to embrace the 'Australian' culture and learn they aren't in 'insert country here' anymore. And in the next breath put down guys like Goodes and his war dance.

There's no mileage in rejecting stereotypes by employing other sterotypes. Many 'white Australians' (perhaps more than you think) aren't remotely as you describe them.

Australia is a relaxed, multicultural, liberal, egalitarian society, not a racist hotbed. The ratbags are a vocal minority.

'White Australians' is itself a racially derogatory term, which wouldn't be acceptable if the color was anything but white. Substitute 'black' there and see how it sounds.

 

[ChargerWA]

The problem is white australia has no credibility on the issue. You can't continually be on the wrong side of the argument for 200 years and then try to take the high ground in the conversation as you try to move forward as a United society.

Sadly, these past few weeks have shown how far we still have to go and it will only likely improve because of generational change. Basically, my fathers generation needs to die and my kids generation need to take over.