Should The Wallabies be doing a Bumala-y Yuurrama-y?

[jollyswagman]

I reckon this guy could slip one up read's backside if he wasn't paying attention.................sorry

 

[swingpass]

 

[p.Tah]

Apparently The Aboriginal activist Burnum Burnum (Harry Penrith) played Rugby for Parramatta and NSW country.

http://www.kooriweb.org/foley/images/history/1960s/dawn/dawn22.html

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I'd get an Aboriginal elder to a nice welcome to country for about five minutes straight after the Haka. Let them get all fired up then let a lovely old Uncle or Aunty give them a big hug and a welcome. Works for me.

This is just awesome. Wheel out some chatty old aboriginal aunty to take her sweet motherfucking time shaking eeevery AB's hand, stops off for a half-alzheimers chat with every third player (can't ignore her, thats racist) offers them a homemade aboriginal scone (no thank you? uh-oh, more racism) replete with some inane, tenuously-cultural backstory behind it revolving around flour and broken spatulas and had-to-go-to-the-dairy-to-get-more-milk-but-it-was-closed-by-then carry on.

Anyone that doesnt like it? More racists.

 

[Pfitzy]

I don't understand why we don't do an Acknowledgement of Country just before the anthems at a Wallabies game.

Yep. It happens nearly everywhere else - school assemblies, any government function etc. Imma tweet it now

 

[Latts1992]

It happened before every Aus v India cricket test in the summer from memory.

 

[Ruggo]

The ontology behind the culture is vastly different. Western society is very much founded on inductive and deductive reasoning whereas Indigenous culture isn't. We hear the term country and it means something physical but country in Aboriginal culture, country is holistic in that it represents both the spiritual and biophysical.

To understand their culture or at very least respect it, we have to really open our minds up and except their is a different way. We don't have to like it, just be aware of it. That is how we will accept racial tolerance.

What would be helpful is if Goodes explained the metaphor behind his dance, particually the spear chucking component. I'm no expert on Aboriginal culture but if it was a gesture relating to a hunt, it is a mark of respect and not an act of aggression which I think many have perceived it to be. Knowledge will defeat ignorance any day of the week and it would help if Adam explained it.

Remember when the shit hit the fan over the throat slitting gesture in the haka? Similar situation and when it was culturally interpreted, it took on a different meaning.

 

[liquor box]

I don't think there should be war dance, it a sport and not a war.

We come together with teams from other nations to show that the world should be as one and celebrate that we can have two opposing nations come together in a peaceful manner.

Lets celebrate being human beings, not a bunch of different races.

 

[Marcelo]

From a marketing perspective, it's a good idea to link the team with a war dance as the Kiwis did.

But first things first: We have to win big games and tournaments. We must recover the Bledisloe!

 

[Ruggo]

I don't think there should be war dance, it a sport and not a war.

We come together with teams from other nations to show that the world should be as one and celebrate that we can have two opposing nations come together in a peaceful manner.

Lets celebrate being human beings, not a bunch of different races.

That is very easy to celebrate unless you are the mob that has had his culture trampled on and in many cases wiped out of existence. To do what you are suggesting (which I think is a wonderful idea) would have to be done on equal terms and that is just not where we are yet. The big question is how do we come to those equal terms and that is where the discussion needs to be at, yet 22 years after this what have we done and where are we at?

 

[ChargerWA]

Perhaps we should implement what the Aboriginal community would want.

Here is one point of view:

http://theconversation.com/we-all-know-and-admire-the-haka-so-why-not-one-of-our-own-45432

I will admit this the article which prompted me to have a rethink in the issue.

I still shudder a bit at the idea, mainly because I would be concerned our players couldn't give the act the credibility it demands. But if it was supported by the aboriginal community I don't see why we shouldn't at least look at the issue.

 

[BDA]

I would prefer to see a push for the Haka to be stopped. I appreciate the spectacle but is it unreasonable to expect that the opposition stand still an watch (getting cold) while the Haka performing team get to stay nice and warm jumping around. Sadly the Kiwi's would be outraged if any team did there own thing while the Haka was being performed. How about they pick one or the other ..either Haka or anthem..just not both?

The Haka is one of my favourite parts of test match rugby. I would riot if they banned it.

 

[Sully]

The Haka is one of my favourite parts of test match rugby. I would riot if they banned it.

Really? Meh.

 

[zer0]

I'd get an Aboriginal elder to a nice welcome to country for about five minutes straight after the Haka. Let them get all fired up then let a lovely old Uncle or Aunty give them a big hug and a welcome. Works for me.

TBH you'd probably be doing the All Black's a favour as they've commented over the years that they believe the haka tends to get a number of them overexcited which, in turn, leads to the poor opening quarter performances. Probably why they often also go into a huddle immediately afterwards.

I would prefer to see a push for the Haka to be stopped. I appreciate the spectacle but is it unreasonable to expect that the opposition stand still an watch (getting cold) while the Haka performing team get to stay nice and warm jumping around. Sadly the Kiwi's would be outraged if any team did there own thing while the Haka was being performed. How about they pick one or the other ..either Haka or anthem..just not both?

Personally I'd welcome that, as it would mean that dirge of an anthem would be dropped like a hot potato.

 

[BDA]

I think the Haka fits the All Black team culture perfectly. From an outsider's perspective it seems like the Maori culture is strongly ingrained in NZ society, and in rugby in particular given the large percentage of players that are of Maori, or PI, decent. The All Blacks always seem to have at least half the team with a Maori or Islander background. I must admit that from time to time iv found it a bit awkward watching some guys who clearly have no maori background perform the haka.

I don't think an aboriginal war dance would fit the wallabies as well. Firstly, rightly or wrongly, very few Australian identify in any way with aboriginal culture. Part of that is because the aboriginal and TSI population in Australia is only about 2-2.5% of the population, compared to the Maori/PI population in NZ which is closer to 20%. Also whilst the wallabies have always had, and always will have, great aboriginal and PI talent, we only ever have a handful of players in any one squad. I tend to think that if your team's going to be doing an aboriginal dance, a decent number of the players should have some connection with the aboriginal culture, otherwise it all feels a bit lame, even disrespectful.

 

[BDA]

Really? Meh.

Not a fan?

 

[Teh Other Dave]

What bothers me the most is that it will be a token gesture, or worse, co-opting, confecting, and commodifying indigenous cultures by turning into a tacky marketing exercise. Mind you, I found John Williamson leading Waltzing Matilda during the early 2000s made me cringe.

 

[TOCC]

What bothers me the most is that it will be a token gesture, or worse, co-opting, confecting, and commodifying indigenous cultures by turning into a tacky marketing exercise. Mind you, I found John Williamson leading Waltzing Matilda during the early 2000s made me cringe.

I agree with the first half, but not with the second part about Waltzing Matilda, I actually enjoyed that.

 

[southsider]

The ontology behind the culture is vastly different. Western society is very much founded on inductive and deductive reasoning whereas Indigenous culture isn't. We hear the term country and it means something physical but country in Aboriginal culture, country is holistic in that it represents both the spiritual and biophysical.

To understand their culture or at very least respect it, we have to really open our minds up and except their is a different way. We don't have to like it, just be aware of it. That is how we will accept racial tolerance.

What would be helpful is if Goodes explained the metaphor behind his dance, particually the spear chucking component. I'm no expert on Aboriginal culture but if it was a gesture relating to a hunt, it is a mark of respect and not an act of aggression which I think many have perceived it to be. Knowledge will defeat ignorance any day of the week and it would help if Adam explained it.

Remember when the shit hit the fan over the throat slitting gesture in the haka? Similar situation and when it was culturally interpreted, it took on a different meaning.

I think most people had a problem with him seeking out fans from the opposing team and throwing the "spear" towards them, rather than the act of the war dance itself. If he had done it to a group of swans supporters or even just back into the centre of the field I don't think it would have received any attention. From my view point Goodes was deliberately trying to stir the opposing fans by doing the war dance in their direction and as a result it lost all cultural meaning and just became a tacky way to be divisive and hide behind the race card.

In regard to the AB's and the throat slitting during the kapa o pango, there is a clear difference to what happened with Goodes, not only did they choose the right time, place and manner to perform their Haka but when it was pointed out that the throat slitting may be seen as overly aggressive it was amended so that now the motion is more across the chest as opposed to when it first started when it was very clearly across the throat. This is a great example of the AB's showing their culture while still being respectful of other peoples culture too

 

[daz]

The Haka isn't going anywhere and I'm fine with it, but I am completely opposed to the IRB ruling that opposition teams just have to stand there and take it.

I say take the fine and advance up, right in the Kiwi's faces. The French did it right in the RWC11 final; just link up and stare the fuckers down from 1 metre.

If a bit of push and shove happens to break out, then so much the better.