CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
I seem to recall a joke about him and his brother sharing the one brain...showing my age now!!
He did very well rugby wise.
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I seem to recall a joke about him and his brother sharing the one brain...showing my age now!!
He did very well rugby wise.
N
ned
Guest
Yeah the bonus payment system is true and it makes perfect sense why Manu and his colleagues push for their NTS players to be selected in the Academy sides and higher level schoolboy sides.
N
NorthernSon
Guest
Hmmm, My reliable sources cannot validate the terms of JGS (NTS) Coordinators Manu and Ben Whittaker's contracts at the ARU so I would only be speculating on the theory of bonuses on the number of JGS players progressing through the pathway.
What is known is Manu and Whitts do a good job in tutoring the lucky ones in the program and of course build solid relationships with their pupils. It hence must make it diifficult for Manu and Whitts (a schoolboy selector) to not use their influence on having their pupils selected.
The worst example of JGS influence was 2010 with the large number of Kings boys selected for NSW & Aus Schools, when Manu and the ARU JGS coaching team had an open invitation from the school to coach and run sessions at Kings from February to May.
Yes some were deserving such as Guy Millar & Boyd Killingworth of higher honours but some others,..... pleaseeeee........... they just didnt perform when put under "physical" pressure for their school let alone country and are still struggling in Colts in the same manner.
Having witnessed these same JGS (NTS) aligned individuals under performing in subsequent Kings losses to Joeys and Newington in 2010, I had no confidence in the 2010 Aus schoolboys even getting close to NZ Schools and the result came at no surprise.
I dont know what the solution is, but maybe consider removing ARU staff from the selection table and let the boys be selected on merit alone, hmmm, Iam probably dreaming as the ARU props up the rep schools system budget and would always want to influence selections.
What is known is Manu and Whitts do a good job in tutoring the lucky ones in the program and of course build solid relationships with their pupils. It hence must make it diifficult for Manu and Whitts (a schoolboy selector) to not use their influence on having their pupils selected.
The worst example of JGS influence was 2010 with the large number of Kings boys selected for NSW & Aus Schools, when Manu and the ARU JGS coaching team had an open invitation from the school to coach and run sessions at Kings from February to May.
Yes some were deserving such as Guy Millar & Boyd Killingworth of higher honours but some others,..... pleaseeeee........... they just didnt perform when put under "physical" pressure for their school let alone country and are still struggling in Colts in the same manner.
Having witnessed these same JGS (NTS) aligned individuals under performing in subsequent Kings losses to Joeys and Newington in 2010, I had no confidence in the 2010 Aus schoolboys even getting close to NZ Schools and the result came at no surprise.
I dont know what the solution is, but maybe consider removing ARU staff from the selection table and let the boys be selected on merit alone, hmmm, Iam probably dreaming as the ARU props up the rep schools system budget and would always want to influence selections.
B
baldingwingforward
Guest
Agree with your observations of last year Northernson - some of the Kings selections were a joke and it was proven when they failed to perform when the pressure came on in important games.
This year i feel however that in general the NSW selections have been significantly fairer. There were a number of deserving boys left out of their respective schools representative sides but that has nothing to do with the ARU selectors. When it came to NSW selections some notable NTS players were left out - rightly so - but much to many peoples surprise. Perhaps this shows that the ARU staff had less direct influence on the NSW selections this year. When their "favourites" get left out, they tend to pick them in the Combined States team so they still get a chance at the Australian Champs. This has again been the case this year and as long as the programme exists it is unlikely that many of the boys will be left out of teams because clealry it makes the ARU talent spotting look stupid if kids they have labelled as "talent potential" don't get a shot at the highest levels
This year i feel however that in general the NSW selections have been significantly fairer. There were a number of deserving boys left out of their respective schools representative sides but that has nothing to do with the ARU selectors. When it came to NSW selections some notable NTS players were left out - rightly so - but much to many peoples surprise. Perhaps this shows that the ARU staff had less direct influence on the NSW selections this year. When their "favourites" get left out, they tend to pick them in the Combined States team so they still get a chance at the Australian Champs. This has again been the case this year and as long as the programme exists it is unlikely that many of the boys will be left out of teams because clealry it makes the ARU talent spotting look stupid if kids they have labelled as "talent potential" don't get a shot at the highest levels
N
NorthernSon
Guest
Hmmmm, Baldwingforward Iam glad we share the same views as well as haircuts.
I concur with your thoughts and it is evident from the 2011 selections that Dean Oxley as assistant coach has had a positive influence on selections with no repeat of the Pa??a selection fiasco of 2010.
Yes your theory on Combined States as the new home for ARU JGS NTS boys missing mainstream selection is on the money. An apalling example is the selection of Will Miller (Scots) at number 8 for combined states instead of talented and deserving number 8 Sam Baraket (Scots) who has absolutely killed them in the pre GPS season selection games.
Dont be suprised by some of Manu's pets on reserve benches (Roye and Roods) and with other combined states nts players coming from no where to make Aus Schools teams. Last year it was Michael Wells who under performed and was obviously intimidated when selected to play against NZ schools ahead of much deserving squad member Halloway from Waverly College.
I concur with your thoughts and it is evident from the 2011 selections that Dean Oxley as assistant coach has had a positive influence on selections with no repeat of the Pa??a selection fiasco of 2010.
Yes your theory on Combined States as the new home for ARU JGS NTS boys missing mainstream selection is on the money. An apalling example is the selection of Will Miller (Scots) at number 8 for combined states instead of talented and deserving number 8 Sam Baraket (Scots) who has absolutely killed them in the pre GPS season selection games.
Dont be suprised by some of Manu's pets on reserve benches (Roye and Roods) and with other combined states nts players coming from no where to make Aus Schools teams. Last year it was Michael Wells who under performed and was obviously intimidated when selected to play against NZ schools ahead of much deserving squad member Halloway from Waverly College.
RugbyNut101
Peter Burge (5)
If you think Baraket has outplayed Miller this year, you are sadly mistaken. Miller was rightly not picked for NSW because of poor performances for GPS but has easily been scots best player (ahead of Stewart and Walters) and one of the inform GPS players. One of the reasons he didn't get picked however is because he doesn't play his natural position at scots, he is an outright 7. If it weren't for Walters at 7 (NSW Schools II captain) then he would be right up there. If Miller was at any other Gps school and playing 7 he would of been one of the first picked for NSW, behind Broome. Baraket has played well, but he's an outright prop and this was seen in his performances for GPS II's
O
OppO
Guest
While I agree that Miller is a strong player and deserves to be at the championships. I can't agree that he is a natural 7. He is a hard loose runner, more suited to 6/8
Newbie
Bill McLean (32)
Gentlemen,
I have noticed that Sutherland and Whittaker are often absent from club championships that are club based (i.e. State Championships and Regional carnivals).
I could be wrong, and in fact they do attend, however I am surmising that their collective influence ends at schools!
Anyone in the know!
Regards,
Newbie.
I have noticed that Sutherland and Whittaker are often absent from club championships that are club based (i.e. State Championships and Regional carnivals).
I could be wrong, and in fact they do attend, however I am surmising that their collective influence ends at schools!
Anyone in the know!
Regards,
Newbie.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
Can absoluelty assure you that Manu Sutherland attended games at Milner on the long weekend - can't recall which days but can 100% assure you he was there (and as i recall, not hanging out with John O'Neil & Robbie Deans). And yes - he apppeared to be making notes.
C
cold coffee
Guest
Selection Trials - politics ?
Reading the above there are some very strong comments and opinions. The crux of it all is consistency ... and Consistent it aint...
I have just enjoyed watching 10 games of rugby this weekend at the U16 Sydney Juniors Regional Champs out at Gratham Reserve Blacktown (an excellent playing surface I might add)
We have all heard of folks in business and kids sport who have been dealt a cruel blow from a selection of some sorts.. Some just know how to pick themselves up and some just cant..There always seems be a victim after the event is over... He should of played here and why didnt he do this .. bla bla bla.. and yes at the end of it all the cream rises to the top etc....
However where I see a monumental flaw in the system and most coaches/managers of teams mainly in a tournement such as the one this weekend - and that is actual GAME TIME for the complete squad....
Most teams name 21-23 players and we all read the booklet with whose numbers are attached to what name. So why doesnt the bench get some playing time ...after all it is a trial in reality. I can tell you now that from the winning team on the weekend a couple of players hardly raised a sweat with 10-20 mins playing time in total (yes over 4 games). The parents in this case who paid the same amount would have every right to feel annoyed at the coaching staff and this is where the "politics" term is used i know...
Why not use a the very simple system as per my knowledge in other sports for example that each nominated squad member must have a minium of 40 mins playing time in the carnival. (ie 10mins per game) If this was stated at the beginning of the competition all would understand from the start. In the case of the last weekend the Sydney Selectors would of actually seen all players on the park for a reasonable period of time - but they didnt .. did they !
The 23 selected players are the cream of the Region and fully deserve to have game time to show the Sydney selectors what they they can do...
This wont solve it but it will add more consistency to our cause....
Thanks for reading....... more coffee !
Reading the above there are some very strong comments and opinions. The crux of it all is consistency ... and Consistent it aint...
I have just enjoyed watching 10 games of rugby this weekend at the U16 Sydney Juniors Regional Champs out at Gratham Reserve Blacktown (an excellent playing surface I might add)
We have all heard of folks in business and kids sport who have been dealt a cruel blow from a selection of some sorts.. Some just know how to pick themselves up and some just cant..There always seems be a victim after the event is over... He should of played here and why didnt he do this .. bla bla bla.. and yes at the end of it all the cream rises to the top etc....
However where I see a monumental flaw in the system and most coaches/managers of teams mainly in a tournement such as the one this weekend - and that is actual GAME TIME for the complete squad....
Most teams name 21-23 players and we all read the booklet with whose numbers are attached to what name. So why doesnt the bench get some playing time ...after all it is a trial in reality. I can tell you now that from the winning team on the weekend a couple of players hardly raised a sweat with 10-20 mins playing time in total (yes over 4 games). The parents in this case who paid the same amount would have every right to feel annoyed at the coaching staff and this is where the "politics" term is used i know...
Why not use a the very simple system as per my knowledge in other sports for example that each nominated squad member must have a minium of 40 mins playing time in the carnival. (ie 10mins per game) If this was stated at the beginning of the competition all would understand from the start. In the case of the last weekend the Sydney Selectors would of actually seen all players on the park for a reasonable period of time - but they didnt .. did they !
The 23 selected players are the cream of the Region and fully deserve to have game time to show the Sydney selectors what they they can do...
This wont solve it but it will add more consistency to our cause....
Thanks for reading....... more coffee !
kiwi playing in Oz
Allen Oxlade (6)
Can any of you experts explain how a person who played one position in the state champs gets picked for the regional team and plays a totally different position to the one he played at the state champs?
B
beaver
Guest
Cold Coffee - good point.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
No easy answer - can't think of names to suit these pages, but there will be instances where say the second ranked #10, having never played at any other position will be played at 12 (second play maker theory, but a big defensive ask) or maybe at 15. Often happens in the forwards where coaches see 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 as somewhat interchangeable.
B
baldingwingforward
Guest
Often happens in the forwards where coaches see 4 said:
H
high tower
Guest
Last year's selection fiasco, what do you call it this year when the NSW 2's dominated by the same school assoc, whose parents screamed blue murder last year, lose to Victoria!
The woe is us, he should never coach School rep teams again, have no doubt moved on or see this years selections as a return to how things should always be.
Note that Purcell who was the much maligned 12("shoulda been Apo") in NSW 1's last year, only made bench this year in 1s, but scored a meat pie in game 1.Anyone know how much game time he got?
Be interesting to see how many of the chosen( NSW GPS cohort) make the Aust schools 1sts this year.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
It's getting to that time of year when selections are discussed and the subject of bias, politics and unfairness rears its ugly head.
People who write on these matters have some very good points but such posts and, equally, the responses to them, can get emotional. A thread can be ruined like this and the virus can hop from thread to thread as protagonists delight in making speeches in as many threads as they can.
That may be over the top, but, whatever, it is better for the health of a forum to isolate contentious issues to their own thread.
Therefore, like last year, we request that posts on the matters in the title of this thread be discussed in this thread only. Any posts on these matters in other threads will be deleted.
Likewise, any posts that have content that includes these matters mixed in with other content will be deleted; so please take care so as not to waste your time.
Thank you
People who write on these matters have some very good points but such posts and, equally, the responses to them, can get emotional. A thread can be ruined like this and the virus can hop from thread to thread as protagonists delight in making speeches in as many threads as they can.
That may be over the top, but, whatever, it is better for the health of a forum to isolate contentious issues to their own thread.
Therefore, like last year, we request that posts on the matters in the title of this thread be discussed in this thread only. Any posts on these matters in other threads will be deleted.
Likewise, any posts that have content that includes these matters mixed in with other content will be deleted; so please take care so as not to waste your time.
Thank you
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Can someone tell me at what age these squads are "picked". I have been give some conflicting info not just as to age but as to process. Thanks.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Dec played a few games for Joeys 3rds in 1970 (not "in the late seventies") in between hobbling about with a knee injury. If his knee had've been better he would've played 2s or 1s.
Budgie
Chris McKivat (8)
15. Chris Latham, Narrabri High ( and played soccer for many years apparently)
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