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Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

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whatever

Darby Loudon (17)
I don't think there'll ever be enough space here to solve it all and where do you start. Pruning some of the ARU hangers on. But this forum is about junior rugby so to break down the power that so few currently hold over so many then ditch the elitism squads. I'm absolutely opposed to these little clubs because I think they shrink the talent pool rather than expanding it and development needs to be made available to as many kids as possible for growth and not seen to be the possession of a privileged few. Invest in colts rugby development where most kids start to even out mentally and physically and is in the clubs best interest, they did a good job in the past.

-------------

As an unabashed supporter of rugby I make no apolagies for seeing open schools rugby as being the cut off point where kids need to make a decision on where they want to pursue a future. If they choose league then good luck to them and we put the time and funding into the next best rugby player. Keeps happening but few seem to care. Unlike NZ and SA we have major competition for our athletes allegiance and can't afford to be wasting time and resources developing the oppositions next generations.

While there has always been an element of politics throughout the game, much of the plot was lost when the game went professional and the administration couldn't keep pace with the players and the rugby beauracracy invented programs and policies to justify an existence. Reducing the influence that some hold over those at such an early stage of development may help redress some of the issues that have evolved in this time.

I don't know whether going back to the days of pre-professional rugby (concentration on colts etc) is the way to go unless rugby officials put their hands up and accept that Australia will be a 2nd tier rugby nation with the odd team, every decade or so, that will push the powerhouse nations.

You are correct in saying that union is quickly becoming the 4th winter code in junior sports, at least in Sydney (which is all I can speak on). AFL is here for at least a decade with GWS (they will spend mutiple millions of $ in their attempt to win the hearts and minds of families and their children). West Sydney now has its own A league soccer side - therefore, more pressure.

Australia is the only tier 1 (or any tier) rugby country where their rugby code is not the dominant code (at least on the East Coast).

SA - rugby only, NZ - rugby, with league a long way behind, the same with the British Isle countries.

Is there a simple answer, to how to save Oz rugby at an international level - I doubt it.

Giving up, and allowing rugby to be a sport played in the eastern and northern suburbs, with a small enclave in western sydney - is no answer.

To win the dual coders is the obvious answer, but how.

You state that JG & NG squads are not the answer, although many of the current Super 15 & wallabies seem to have graduated from these groups. So it is a start.

Allowing GPS and another schools to recruit by way of (undisclosed) scholarships, seemingly for their own benefit - not for the sport, as a whole? Doubt it, as you have pointed out Milne, Moeroa and throw in Lussick (to name a few) will first try their luck in league via NYC before union.

The selective state sport high schools seem to have dropped their bundle in their rugby programs, at best they develop dual coders by year 12 - who definitely have a preference for league.

The CCC association of schools (a major number of possible recruits) will never move away from league as their major winter sport.

Ok, so there is not a simple solution.

So how about this (left field and outside the square) - the school associations that have rugby union as there major winter sport are GPS, CAS & ISA. Within these associations there seems to be schools that can not compete with others on the rugby field (Sydney Boys & Grammar are examples in the GPS and there will be anothers in CAS & ISA); therefore, why doesn't the ARU instigate sport (rugby) scholarships for identified 15 and 16 year old dual coders to enter these schools in year 10 on the proviso that they will not only play rugby at school (GPS, CAS, ISA) but must commit to a village club for weekend games - strengthens the association comps, as well as, village rugby.

After schooling, who knows but at least the identified talent will play rugby exclusively for 3 years.

Next step, a serious semi-professional comp below Super 15, as said, the Shute shield is shite.
 

an observer

Herbert Moran (7)
My concerns aren't for individuals but for the Boys Club mentality that is a part of schools/junior rugby like a cancer. Too little people have far too much influence over the ambitions of these kids and are more interested in feeding their own egos in deals behind closed doors. Why does it say on the Aus Schools site that a CS team isn't being selected until a certain time and yet players are informed of their selection 24 hrs in advance of the time?


Do you know when the NSW 1's and 2's were contacted? The announcement was supposed to be in the paper on Saturday but the lads all knew Friday evening. Maybe players are informed as soon as possible so they can get organised? Travel, school, work, family etc.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Watch you dissapoint me. I would think you of all people would do the due diligence of a bit of research first.
If the CS team was selected as you believe while the state teams were being selected (instead of as per the Aus schools web site) then why were Kitchen, Kennelly, Pulver, Hood and Delore named in the shadow squad. Thats a third of the CS team so it must be a big surprise to you.
Hands up, I was totally off track there, agree with your point there.

What good argument is there for pulling apart the most impressive combination of the trials in Kellaway, Jones and Foketi to put 2 of them in the II's and another out of position for an out of form player who played all of 5 minutes in the position and 2 players who could have been accomodated in CS. If McIntyre had to be picked then put him on a bench or play him in the II's at No10, whether he played for Australia last year or not, it might be the kick in the arse he needs to find some form.
Foketi is not a winger normally, but now he must be picked there?Mcintyre is a proven performer at international Schoolboy level, there is an argument for keeping him in the side somewhere.Kellaway played well on the wing last year.Yep it's not my argument, but it is an argument.
Now who has been robbed you say. Well the boys who were named in the shadow squad for a start. I didn't see the names of Palermo, Vest, Croke, Randell or Redden named as shadows but they are listed as members of Uncle Manu's (who just happens to be a CS selector) koala club,(not Vest) not to mention Papworth who was smart enough to slip over the border to try and represent QLD.
Robbed? NSW selectors picked 3 ahead of them in their positions.Unlucky? Maybe
robbed? No
You probably do feel that selections are the least contentious for years because 5 of your Augustines boys managed to sneak into the NSW teams and in a couple of cases in front of more deserving players. You always ask for justification of these statements so i'll share my thoughts on what I saw of them with you................
These aren't bad selections. All 5 kids can play and a couple should be in the squads but perhaps not starting while a couple were also outplayed by others more deserving in my opinion..
Mate, I say they are not contentious due to the lack of comment from forums such as this, rather than my personal opinion. in any event,I'm not bothered that they were picked, or that some of their mates were not. But I have been bothered that people have been complaining about ISA selections before the sides were selected, after the sides were selected and all over again with the state process.And when it is all said and done,vocal critics such as yourself still complain, but begrudgingly admit that they:"aren't bad selections"
Read your post again, see the how many kids performances do you analyse.
How many?
How many from one particular school?
Chip on the shoulder maybe?
 

pine cone 3

Frank Nicholson (4)
Foketi is not a winger normally, but now he must be picked there?
Why? if he's not in the top 4 centres (which he clearly is) then don't pick him

Mcintyre is a proven performer at international Schoolboy level, there is an argument for keeping him in the side somewhere.
Agree, but he could have been picked at no10 in II's to show whether he can recall the international form

Kellaway played well on the wing last year.Yep it's not my argument, but it is an argument.
Played better at 15 this year

Robbed? NSW selectors picked 3 ahead of them in their positions.Unlucky? Maybe
robbed? No
Selectors picked 4 players in front of the others, robbed? Yes

Mate, I say they are not contentious due to the lack of comment from forums such as this
The armchair selectors may just be tired from previous selection calamities but there were a couple of obvious choices this year

I have been bothered that people have been complaining about ISA selections before the sides were selected, after the sides were selected and all over again with the state process.
Why? Augustines got what they wanted despite some ordinary individual performances as No9 highlighted

And when it is all said and done,vocal critics such as yourself still complain
Some people just don't like to see injustices

but begrudgingly admit that they:"aren't bad selections"
Take the compliment, I know others who also think they didn't deserve selection

Read your post again, see the how many kids performances do you analyse.
He obviously knew who you'd be interested in

How many?
5

How many from one particular school?
Same as above

Chip on the shoulder maybe?
You'd have one on each shoulder if they had done to your Augustines what was done to Oakhill. Having seen Oakhill play Knox and Barker earlier in the year I was stunned to hear that not one Oakhill player could make the ISA I's team as they are a very good team. I turned up with great expectation to see this unbeatable Augustines machine (gave Scots a rugby lesson was a quote attributed to yourself and undeniably so going on the score) play CHS only to see them struggle against a team who had played poorly and been comfortably beaten by CAS. Fridays game would bring a change I thought, with a couple of Oakhill boys belatedly chosen.
Not believing that CAS are a particularly stront side after the GPS drubbing, I was amazed it was a worse result for ISA with many players (particularly the backs defence efforts) playing below the standards achieved by some in the II's. I think No9's assessment from what I saw isn't far off the mark. Having spoken afterwards with my mates son he was surprised at the ease of handling these 'legendary figures'.
[/quote]
 

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
I don't know whether going back to the days of pre-professional rugby (concentration on colts etc) is the way to go unless rugby officials put their hands up and accept that Australia will be a 2nd tier rugby nation with the odd team, every decade or so, that will push the powerhouse nations.

You are correct in saying that union is quickly becoming the 4th winter code in junior sports, at least in Sydney (which is all I can speak on). AFL is here for at least a decade with GWS (they will spend mutiple millions of $ in their attempt to win the hearts and minds of families and their children). West Sydney now has its own A league soccer side - therefore, more pressure.

Australia is the only tier 1 (or any tier) rugby country where their rugby code is not the dominant code (at least on the East Coast).

SA - rugby only, NZ - rugby, with league a long way behind, the same with the British Isle countries.

.

I respect what you're trying to say but rugby is not the dominant code in most Tier 1 Rugby Nations
Tier 1 Rugby Nations consists of the participants in the Six Nations Championship and The Rugby Championship.
The majority of 6 Nations countries have football (soccer) as the dominant code, and Football is also the most popular code in South Africa.
While I agree Rugby in Australia faces very strong competition from the other codes, the A League Soccer goes from Oct thru March and doesn't really compete with Rugby
 

whatever

Darby Loudon (17)
I respect what you're trying to say but rugby is not the dominant code in most Tier 1 Rugby Nations
Tier 1 Rugby Nations consists of the participants in the Six Nations Championship and The Rugby Championship.
The majority of 6 Nations countries have football (soccer) as the dominant code, and Football is also the most popular code in South Africa.
While I agree Rugby in Australia faces very strong competition from the other codes, the A League Soccer goes from Oct thru March and doesn't really compete with Rugby

IIWII,

Mate, I said the dominant rugby code.

The note on GWS & West Syd Wanderers was more on the competition for junior involvement in winter sports and the hearts & minds of their parents.

As I said if the ARU wants to stay competitive (ie: players) in world of professional sports in the 21st century; maybe, they need to think outside of the square and try to entice the 15, 16 year old dual coders.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Here are the stats to support or discredit conspiracy theories:

Of the 46 boys selected: GPS 23; CAS 9; CHS 8; ISA 5; CCC 1; AICES 0; Cntry 0.

Of the 30 starting positions: GPS 18; CAS 4; CHS 4; ISA 4; CCC 0.

Representation by School:

Kings 7 (though none in NSW 1); Newington 5 (with 4 in NSW 1); Joeys 5; St Augustine's 5; Scots 3; Iggies 3; Barker 3; Trinity 3; Alstonville 2; Endeavour Sports 2; Waverley 1; Knox 1; Aloys 1; Plumpton 1; Balgowlah 1; Saint Mary's Cathedral School 1; Farrah 1; Castle Hill 1.

Apologies for Metro bias below but this seems the best comparison to the opens numbers and breakdown above:
NSW Schools (S) and Juniors (J) U16’s
Of the 46 boys selected: CAS 6 (4J, 2S); CCC 2 (2J); CHS 8 (3J, 5S); GPS 25 (13J, 12S); ISA 5 (1J, 4S)

Of the 30 boys “run on” selections:
CAS 5 (3J, 2S); CCC 2 (2J); CHS 3 (1J, 2S); GPS 18 (10J, 8S); ISA 4 (1J, 3S)

Representation by School:
Alstonville 2; Balgowlah 2; Barker 3; Bass HS 1; Chevalier 1; Cranbrook 2; Endeavour SHS 1; Joeys 2; Kings 5; Newington 1; Oakhill 1; Parramatta Marist 1; Riverview 9; Sarah Redfern HS 1; Scots 2; Shore 6; St Aloysius 1; St Andrews 1; St Augustines 2; St Pauls 1; Sydney Technical School 1
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
Apologies for Metro bias below but this seems the best comparison to the opens numbers and breakdown above:
NSW Schools (S) and Juniors (J) U16’s
Of the 46 boys selected: CAS 6 (4J, 2S); CCC 2 (2J); CHS 8 (3J, 5S); GPS 25 (13J, 12S); ISA 5 (1J, 4S)

Of the 30 boys “run on” selections:
CAS 5 (3J, 2S); CCC 2 (2J); CHS 3 (1J, 2S); GPS 18 (10J, 8S); ISA 4 (1J, 3S)

Representation by School:
Alstonville 2; Balgowlah 2; Barker 3; Bass HS 1; Chevalier 1; Cranbrook 2; Endeavour SHS 1; Joeys 2; Kings 5; Newington 1; Oakhill 1; Parramatta Marist 1; Riverview 9; Sarah Redfern HS 1; Scots 2; Shore 6; St Aloysius 1; St Andrews 1; St Augustines 2; St Pauls 1; Sydney Technical School 1

So if little Charlie or James or Mafua wants to play in the big stuff then mum and dad better start saving for the school fees or hope he makes a junior U15/16's league/union (probably in that order) side in which case you'll probably get offered the last 2 years of education gratis at one of the cities finest private colleges.
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
I see that the "Uncle Manu Invitational XV" finished up in the last place play off game on Saturday against Victoria. It just fills you with confidence that the system is working well and that one or two individuals having so much say in the development opportunities within the game is the policy for senior success.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
I really have no opinion either way on Uncle Manu, however it would appear that he is a somewhat polarising figure for some Gaggerlanders.

If the Pathway that is Gold (or littered with Gold) is so wrong, what model should ARU adopt to replace it?

Alternatively, it would appear that the issue may be with individuals tour guides on the Golden pathway rather than the pathway itself that is perceived to be broken. If so, then what alternatives do you suggest?

Given the title of this thread, I would not think that too many of our overseas Gaggerlanders would tread these boards, and contribute on how it is done in the Lands of Darkness, Saffers, Soap Dodging, Spud Bashing or Les Bleus etc. May have to do some googling myself.

IMHO the concept of the Pathway to Gold isn't all that broken, and regardless Cream will still rise to the top (along with some turds full of hot air - thanks Bruce Ross).
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
I see that the "Uncle Manu Invitational XV" finished up in the last place play off game on Saturday against Victoria. It just fills you with confidence that the system is working well and that one or two individuals having so much say in the development opportunities within the game is the policy for senior success.

What would you rather No.9?

Bugger it all and cut straight to a final Qld 1 vs NSW 1 and let the other boys all perish. This would be a far easier and an extremely cheaper option, not to mention no time wasting for the 200+ players, coaches and others associated with the other teams. Only problem with that is that would defeat the purpose – this is about development and opportunity!
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Unfortunately Manu Sutherland can only work with lads who turn up to be looked at and chosen! I have seen him chase after those who he beleives possess some rugby talent in the dark code and sometimes to no avail (and believe me some of the lads i have seen him pursue are sublime players).

There is a lad from Hills Sports High called Zac Clay who is currently contracted to Parramatta. Clay played in the Parra SG Ball team this year (and is also eligible next year). Last year Clay was part of the ARU JGS and I believe he had been invited by Manu Sutherland. Nevertheless, like all 'Dual Coders' he did not receive and invite this year!

Last week Zac Clay (who is still is an U/17) was selected, and played in the Parramatta Toyota Cup team against Newcastle. He also had a very good strong game at hooker (equivalent to rugby scrum-half).

The point I make is this; Manu Sutherland and Ben Whitaker try and have a go! They can only work with the lads they have available to them. For mine they don't have a big talent pool from which to draw their current crop! League on the other hand is able to pick the eyes out of theirs and they do. To me he is always there trying to convert but in this league dominated city he will always face an uphill battle!

Give him some kudos for having a go!
 

whatever

Darby Loudon (17)
Unfortunately Manu Sutherland can only work with lads who turn up to be looked at and chosen! I have seen him chase after those who he beleives possess some rugby talent in the dark code and sometimes to no avail (and believe me some of the lads i have seen him pursue are sublime players).

There is a lad from Hills Sports High called Zac Clay who is currently contracted to Parramatta. Clay played in the Parra SG Ball team this year (and is also eligible next year). Last year Clay was part of the ARU JGS and I believe he had been invited by Manu Sutherland. Nevertheless, like all 'Dual Coders' he did not receive and invite this year!

Last week Zac Clay (who is still is an U/17) was selected, and played in the Parramatta Toyota Cup team against Newcastle. He also had a very good strong game at hooker (equivalent to rugby scrum-half).

The point I make is this; Manu Sutherland and Ben Whitaker try and have a go! They can only work with the lads they have available to them. For mine they don't have a big talent pool from which to draw their current crop! League on the other hand is able to pick the eyes out of theirs and they do. To me he is always there trying to convert but in this league dominated city he will always face an uphill battle!

Give him some kudos for having a go!

Seen this game, whilst it was a shocker (parra won); full kudos to Zac. Actually play 70 minutes at half then last 10 at dummy half. Great effort for a 17yr old. Full agreement with your comments about Manu and Ben (toss in Mark Boss) they do a lot of hard work with dual coders, only then have Schools crap on them from a height.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I don't think anyone is critical of the coaching by Manu.
my understanding is the criticism is about the perceived "inside run"that members of his squad receive at selection times.
Many think that ''his boys'' are selected even though non squad members outperform some of his squad.
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
What would you rather No.9?

Bugger it all and cut straight to a final Qld 1 vs NSW 1 and let the other boys all perish. This would be a far easier and an extremely cheaper option, not to mention no time wasting for the 200+ players, coaches and others associated with the other teams. Only problem with that is that would defeat the purpose – this is about development and opportunity!

Jumping at shadows there Hill man.
I think if you had read a previous post regarding CS selection you would know what I think is the right option. Selecting the CS team from the shadow squads as recognition of just missing the main squads is infinetly fairer and transparent than issueing invitations to players on an undisclosed basis. The fact that they finished last simply confirms the opinion of the last selection process, that they weren't up to it in the first place. Denying players opportunity to play is not the answer, giving the correct players is. If the Koala club is so pivotal to the success of Australian Rugby why don't we have a Koala XV play off against an Aust A squad for final schools selection.
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
1st XV is picked, then the 2nd XV. Not certain if the CS boys get picked before or after the reserves (which are picked for 2nds & then 1sts), but I was always of the understanding that CS players were picked before "shadow" players.
 

Brian Westlake

Arch Winning (36)
So if little Charlie or James or Mafua wants to play in the big stuff then mum and dad better start saving for the school fees or hope he makes a junior U15/16's league/union (probably in that order) side in which case you'll probably get offered the last 2 years of education gratis at one of the cities finest private colleges.
What has happened No 9? I always thought that you gave a slightly cynical, but objective view. Did the mum from Waverley, who's face doesn't move, run over your terrier?
Sorry mate. But all jokes aside, that a truckload of kids can play the game, but are they in the right area? Whits and the other lads don't make the trip to Castle Hill, let alone Raby. If Oakhill, Kings, Barker, Newington or Trinity offer the boys an opportunity for their sporting prowess to shine. Live with it.
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
Unfortunately Manu Sutherland can only work with lads who turn up to be looked at and chosen! I have seen him chase after those who he beleives possess some rugby talent in the dark code and sometimes to no avail (and believe me some of the lads i have seen him pursue are sublime players).

There is a lad from Hills Sports High called Zac Clay who is currently contracted to Parramatta. Clay played in the Parra SG Ball team this year (and is also eligible next year). Last year Clay was part of the ARU JGS and I believe he had been invited by Manu Sutherland. Nevertheless, like all 'Dual Coders' he did not receive and invite this year!

Last week Zac Clay (who is still is an U/17) was selected, and played in the Parramatta Toyota Cup team against Newcastle. He also had a very good strong game at hooker (equivalent to rugby scrum-half).

The point I make is this; Manu Sutherland and Ben Whitaker try and have a go! They can only work with the lads they have available to them. For mine they don't have a big talent pool from which to draw their current crop! League on the other hand is able to pick the eyes out of theirs and they do. To me he is always there trying to convert but in this league dominated city he will always face an uphill battle!

Give him some kudos for having a go!

Newbie,
I know you have a soft spot for those young fellows who dabble in the dark code and good luck to them I say. Where we may not agree is whether pursuing these players beyond the age of 16 is a worthy investment. In my time I have yet to see a young player turn his back on league in favour of rugby when being courted by the devils courtesans. But I digress.

My problem is not with Sutherland or Whitaker themselves. I just don't believe that we need high performance/elite player managers/squads at the age bracket they target. The power and influence they possess is also well beyond a healthy level of transparency. Now if they were to start this process at 19-20 I could see some value to it.

The sad part is that many think we have to travel this 'Pathway' to be successful at international and provincial levels because it makes JON's mantra sound like he knows what he is talking about or that he cares about development (not). We appear obsessed with putting younger and younger untried players into the fray and then don't understand why they get exposed by Richie and the black wearing hethens. When that experiment fails we pluck another one off the tree. Remember 2 years ago when Slipper was the next big thing in front row players, hasn't played much test rugby since? How did our U20's go this year full of S15 and experienced Shute Shield players? Full International dominance must be just around the corner. The Bledisloe will once again be ours. Ha.

Have a good look at the state of the game here in NSW. Schools now dominate saturday rugby with a barely contestable SJRU comp the other option, yet schools want to continue running 3 x 6 team competitions where 50 point beatings are regular occurences. How long before they are 4 team comps as they canabalise everyone in the quest for school boy glory. Of the 5 major school associations (CCC included) one has a 50+% dominance of selections into higher level representation already. A cunning kiwi terrorist cell could take out Australian rugby with just 2 or 3 well placed detonations on a winter saturday afternoon. So much emphasis is placed on these kids being a success before they leave school and it can create in some of them an expectation that they are special and should be treated accordingly. I have witnessed the dissapointment on their tear stained faces as they have their name read out in the 2nds or 3rds colts teams and the other boys look at them with a sense of an injustice being corrected in some way .

Rugby has disengaged from its community. Saturday arvo Test matches stunned the ARU with its popularity. Rugby needs to re-engage with its wider support base and encourage the non believers to have a go too. How do you sell to a kid from Penrith or Campbelltown that his pathway to "Gold" has passed him by because he didn't start playing till he was in his last year of school. There's another one off to the Wests Tigers.

In days of Yore there was no "pathway" needed. As a kid you played hard and tried to make a District team each year until you were old enough to play Colts. If you were talented you might make an U21 team or be promoted to grade a year early. The mountain to climb was making first grade because from there you were a step from playing the maroon peril from north of the border and potentially a gold jumper. There were hardened and experienced old heads along the way to guide your education and slap christ out of you if your head became overly inflated about your own ability. Kids grew up wanting to play for the club they had a connection too. Now we have kids who come straight out of the factory of youthfull adulation into a slightly more adult version who may never actually play club rugby. This is where the Ellas, Poidevins and Campese's honed their talent before bedazzling the world. You could go down to your local oval and see them for a small entry fee if you didn't know the gate man.

Yeh, Yeh, Yeh we're professional now I know. Now JON wants me to fork out $180 a head (thats $900 for my family) to watch those from accross the ditch hand us our arses, or to pay at all for watching the Horrortahs play. Why do we need to pay people like Sutherland and his crew hundreds of thousands in salaries to do what a 41 yr old broken down Samoan prop does for free at Southern Districts colts. Credible observations like Tomasi's also show how ridiculous at times the schools selection system can be. Open up the game to all comers, double the rep sides and tournaments if necessary and wait for some maturity before deciding which players to sink the dollars into. By then those who didn't cut it in League land will be back again to have another go or getting 5 shades of shit punched out of them in the local A grade comp. Will it stop GPS getting 99 selections to 1 from CCC, probably not, but it might end the reality that if you haven't made one of the sides selected tomorrow then your pathway just went over a cliff and that rugby up to the age of 18 is owned and administerd by and for the elite.

With regard to young Clay he might do well to steer clear of Parramatta League as it seems to be a bottomless pit of mediocrity currently.
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
1st XV is picked, then the 2nd XV. Not certain if the CS boys get picked before or after the reserves (which are picked for 2nds & then 1sts), but I was always of the understanding that CS players were picked before "shadow" players.

Go back and read post No99 as it relates to your "understanding" of the selection procedure.
 
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