Scotland v Australia 12Nov16 Saturday

[Twoilms]

Many people were saying Timani had barely impressed at Super Rugby and yet here he is taking to test rugby like a fish to water.

Horses for courses. Simmo, Mumm, Skelton etc are probably just better suited to Super/Test rugby than NRC just as Timani so far seems better suited to test Rugby than Super Rugby.

 

[Kev]

It's a bit of an kick in the guts to Phipps tbh. Show's how much less Cheik values him if an overseas player can just slot back in at anytime.

 

[Micheal]

It's a bit of an kick in the guts to Phipps tbh. Show's how much less Cheik values him if an overseas player can just slot back in at anytime.

IMO Genia has a higher ceiling yet they offer different things. For a slow, hard-hitting, wet game in Scotland Phipps' frenzied speed and delivery may not be suitable. Genia provides a cooler-head and greater decision making abilities - this could be useful given the opposition and the conditions.

That being said, I don't think the gap between the two is huge, and I don't think Cheika views it that way.

When Genia is starting Phipps gets a decent amount of time off the bench.

When Phipps is starting Frisby doesn't get much.

I think Cheika trusts both Genia and Phipps but simply thinks Genia is the better player. Many would agree.

 

[Kev]

IMO Genia has a higher ceiling yet they offer different things. For a slow, hard-hitting, wet game in Scotland Phipps' frenzied speed and delivery may not be suitable. Genia provides a cooler-head and greater decision making abilities - this could be useful given the opposition and the conditions.

That being said, I don't think the gap between the two is huge, and I don't think Cheika views it that way.

When Genia is starting Phipps gets a decent amount of time off the bench.

When Phipps is starting Frisby doesn't get much.

I think Cheika trusts both Genia and Phipps but simply thinks Genia is the better player. Many would agree.

Yep, agree on Genia being better but it still can't be good for Phipps' confidence and self-belief (which is needed so he can keep improving). Hopefully he gets decent game time.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's a bit of an kick in the guts to Phipps tbh. Show's how much less Cheik values him if an overseas player can just slot back in at anytime.

Phipps is also an adult who understands that a better player who has been ahead of him all season has been restored to the starting role now that he is available.

I don't think it has anything to do with overseas vs local players.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yep, agree on Genia being better but it still can't be good for Phipps' confidence and self-belief (which is needed so he can keep improving). Hopefully he gets decent game time.

If someone loses belief in their ability because they're on the bench for the test team they probably shouldn't be there at all.

This assumption that selection decisions need to be made to bolster people's egos seems completely back to front at this level.

 

[wamberal]

If a player's ego is so fragile that he can be hurt by being picked on the bench he is in the wrong job.


This is where the All Blacks have it nailed. Nobody owns a national jersey. It is the highest honour in the game to be handed your match day jersey, no matter the number. It's yours for the day. After the game, give it back.


Make the most of every opportunity, it might be your last.

 

[Scrubber2050]

If a player's ego is so fragile that he can be hurt by being picked on the bench he is in the wrong job.


This is where the All Blacks have it nailed. Nobody owns a national jersey. It is the highest honour in the game to be handed your match day jersey, no matter the number. It's yours for the day. After the game, give it back.


Make the most of every opportunity, it might be your last.

Your last sentence is correct, your first not so.

Of course players strive for starting positions. Starters that are dropped after a good performance and a very good team performance have every right to feel hard done by.

That, is the reality of human nature

 

[Brumby Runner]

I trust this video works

And who was it who put pressure on Landajo to force the poor, no look pass?

 

[Brumby Runner]

After the big drop in physicality when Simmons came on it is obvious Cheika wants to maintain the physicality when Arnold comes off. Skelton is the answer.

But does Arnold necessarily have to come off? He played the whole game against Wales except for about 6 - 7 minutes when he was off for blood treatment. That was a very hectic game for both locks. They put in a mountain of work. Seems to me that both would be capable of playing a full 80 minutes, and probably be more effective that Big Will has been for 2 - 3 years.

 

[fatprop]

IMO Genia has a higher ceiling yet they offer different things. For a slow, hard-hitting, wet game in Scotland Phipps' frenzied speed and delivery may not be suitable. Genia provides a cooler-head and greater decision making abilities - this could be useful given the opposition and the conditions.

That being said, I don't think the gap between the two is huge, and I don't think Cheika views it that way.

When Genia is starting Phipps gets a decent amount of time off the bench.

When Phipps is starting Frisby doesn't get much.

I think Cheika trusts both Genia and Phipps but simply thinks Genia is the better player. Many would agree.

Plus a better kicking game from the base

 

[Braveheart81]

But does Arnold necessarily have to come off? He played the whole game against Wales except for about 6 - 7 minutes when he was off for blood treatment. That was a very hectic game for both locks. They put in a mountain of work. Seems to me that both would be capable of playing a full 80 minutes, and probably be more effective that Big Will has been for 2 - 3 years.

It's expected to be wet and Cheika is presumably thinking that will make the game more of a hard slog, particularly for the tight five. Conditions are likely to mean more scrums as well which are tiring.

My guess is he's expecting both locks to need replacing and wants them to be able to push to an extent where they are cooked prior to 80 minutes.

 

[dru]

My concern with Genia is that by his own choices he is not available for the biggest scheduled game - England. I would have thought that the game management would be looking to England and building to it.

On the bench. I am not concerned about Simmo. Ditto Mumm. Ditto Skelton. (all right I'm exagerating).

But Mumm, Simmons, Skelton on the bench together rings alarm bells. There is no real cover for 7/8. I can cope with that compromise on a 5/3 bench, but seems a touch unnecessary on a 6/2.

Anyways, lets see how things pan out.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Some statements being made that need a bit of a counter.

Genia's box licking is terrible. Not so in Bledisloe 3 iirc, and it is probably as much the poor chase as the poor execution of the kick that has damaged us in the past. With DHP and Izzy now chasing, the box kick is starting to look to be a weapon for the Wallabies.

Timani has been poor at Super Rugby level. Lopeti has played in the second row for most, if not all, of his games with the Rebels. Put him at No 8 which is a spot he seems to be ideally suited to and he is a winner. Same will/would occur if the Rebels decide to play him at 8 as well.

 

[KOB1987]

BR I think Timani has been developed as an 8 by the Wallabies coaches, part of the reason he took a while to debut. At Super Rugby level he played at lock mostly because they have a smaller set of back rowers (I think they were play 3 x 7s at one point) so the Wobs have honed in on his skillset to make him an 8. If they just chucked him in there first game of the season it would have been a disaster. And of course he will go well there now for the Rebels, he's been coached for the position!

 

[Strewthcobber]

Cheiks might be just limiting Phipps' game time as much as possible to reduce the chance of him doing something catastrophic.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Some statements being made that need a bit of a counter.

Genia's box licking is terrible. ...

Steady on...

 

[PeterK]

Many people were saying Timani had barely impressed at Super Rugby and yet here he is taking to test rugby like a fish to water.

Horses for courses. Simmo, Mumm, Skelton etc are probably just better suited to Super/Test rugby than NRC just as Timani so far seems better suited to test Rugby than Super Rugby.

Timani was excellent in super rugby last year

He was good this year just not as good as last year

Too many people just see flash plays and don't appreciate the hard tough in tight stuff.

 

[PeterK]

It's a bit of an kick in the guts to Phipps tbh. Show's how much less Cheik values him if an overseas player can just slot back in at anytime.

If so he just needs to work harder and be better.

Players are not ENTITLED to a starting spot.

The best player available plays.

 

[Scrubber2050]

The Scots in the wet. Seems that they are going after our tight 5.

Pesky buggers.

Whilst I think the starting team can be improved by several players (some different, some with positional changes) it is the bench that is a concern if the match goes down to the wire.

Should be an exciting match and probably will be closer than most think due to the Scots at home and a wet track (which may inhibit our backs running play)