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Scotland v Australia 12Nov16 Saturday

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BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
I think fardy getting dropped for mumm is pretty harsh. Like slipper he's been ho-hum this year but i thought he played one of his better games off the bench last week.

But whatever. Must be there to offset skelton in the lineout...still Chieka seems to have a hard on for mumm (thats not a diss on mumm, just an observation)
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Skelton is an interesting choice. If would have thought it was almost time to move on from him. Man douglas is clearly desperately in need of an offseason. We really need him to get back to his 2015 form.
 

Micheal

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Cheika has gone 6:2 because of the likely conditions: wet, rainy, windy, boggy. (Just another day in paradise). The props sort themselves after Slippers off-colour performance last week, Simmons is there in case a lock gets injured, Mumm is there to replace Pocock if our lineout is getting dished, Skelton is there to supply grunt and maul destruction if required and to give our second lock a rest in the last 20, when I expect Simmons and Mumm will already be on. Barring injury, Timani will play 80. After last week I would have kept Fardy but I'm not unduly distressed. McMahon is more likely to get a run in France where it might be drier and harder. With the flexibility in our backline we can cover injuries in any position.

Makes enough sense to me to be reasonable, even if its not what I would have done.

Not what I would've done either but I suppose I can see method in the madness. I'd say Skelton is a Super XV season off Wallaby form, and I'm sure you all already know my opinions of Simmons and Mumm.

I can see an argument for Simmons on the bench as he's probably next cab off the rank in terms of the 2nd row, Mumm as he's Mr. Lineout and provides some qualities Cheika likes (old experienced head, aggression, mobility, maul-disruption?? - I'm grasping at straws here). I also think Cheika's trying to play Skelton into fitness.

He's been rotating the 2nd row as he's said he wants to build depth there, which indicates to me he thinks its a vital role going forward. We're already seeing the fruits of this with Arnold and Coleman coming out of nowhere as a world-class lock pairing, and with capable replacements in Douglas, Simmons and Mumm. If we can get Skelton to join the pack and provide a different profile to the others then thats fantastic. If all of the above continue to grow, the 2nd row could become a real strength of the Wallabies moving forward. Who would've thought we would ever be able to say that?

To me, Cheika's always got one eye on his major goal and that seems to be to build a squad that will win the 2019 RWC.

When he came to the Tahs he said he didn't care about how we went in 2013. Throughout the entire season he even maintained that he'd never checked the competition ladder (probably just a bit of rhetoric). Instead he said he wanted to build a squad that had belief (we've heard that recently), an identity (and that) and who played they way they wanted to despite the pressures posed by the other team (and who could execute this plan - heard that).

He was fairly successful in doing that I'd say. The Tahs of 2014 were a delight to watch.

He's said similar, although toned down sentiments (understandable as expectations as a national coach are considerably higher) this year. He wants to test combinations, build both depth and an attacking rugby identity as a squad (and country).

Its easy to often get dismiss all this as rhetoric and pandering, but Michael ("Mr. Intensity / Psychology") Cheika actually buys into this "bull shit"*. He's shown he's willing to sacrifice the short-term for the long-term and whilst I don't think hes necessarily doing so, I can see long-term thinking when he plays individuals like Skelton, whom he clearly sees as having enormous potential. The use of squad apprentices is another clear indication of this.

Perhaps this 'building for the future' explains the exclusion of Fardy - although to carry Mumm in his place defies that logic. Maybe he sees Fardy as over the hill and not central to the Wallabies moving forward, and Mumm as a superior role player as a stop-gap. We really need a 6 to put their hand up this Super season (Higs, Dempsey, RHP, Holloway erm leckin at yew).

Why did I type all that out? Go to fucking bed Micheal you're getting off-topic.

Oh yeah. The team. I'm very happy with the starting XV, less so with the forward reserves but I have faith in Cheik and am at least deluding myself into seeing the logic behind it.

Wallabies by 13. Carn.

* some of the team bonding and psychological stunts he pulled at the Tahs were mind-boggling from what I've heard from mates of mates that are squad members.
 

Dalai Ninja

Ward Prentice (10)
Skelton is an interesting choice. If would have thought it was almost time to move on from him. Man douglas is clearly desperately in need of an offseason. We really need him to get back to his 2015 form.

In 2015, his 2015 form was highly divisive. But you're right. He was very good. Arnold and Coleman are better.
 

Namerican

Bill Watson (15)
Like the lineup. I have to think the goal for Skeleton is to get him to a point where he can come on at the sixty minute mark and be a wrecking ball without being a deficiency in his areas of weakness.

I like what was said about the team going into next year. You now have a ton of players with belief in themselves and the team heading into the next super rugby season: Hodge, Timani, Kerevi, Coleman, Arnold. Add whatever new players or returning injured guys to the mix and it'll only get better.
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
Ninja, I was one of the people that thought Horwill should have been chosen ahead of Douglas at the World Cup, but I thought he really showed what he was capable of at that tournament. At his best he has a hard edge and a good all-round game and he already has the experience of playing in a world cup final. He's relevantly young so he should be key member of squad up to the next world cup. I see him as a very good backup to Arnold and Coleman. With those three guys we have a strong lock stable (not sure iv ever written that). One thing iv noticed over the years that some players can take a full season to get back to good form after suffering a serious injury so its not all too surprising to me that he's a bit off the boil. I think he'll be back to his best by 2017 and hopefully he creates some competition for a starting spot.

Skelton I'm still not sold on. With experience he might be able to plug the holes in his game. at the same time, the older he gets I suspect he'll lose a bit of his dynamism
 

Dalai Ninja

Ward Prentice (10)
Ninja, I was one of the people that thought Horwill should have been chosen ahead of Douglas at the World Cup, but I thought he really showed what he was capable of at that tournament. At his best he has a hard edge and a good all-round game and he already has the experience of playing in a world cup final. He's relevantly young so he should be key member of squad up to the next world cup. I see him as a very good backup to Arnold and Coleman. With those three guys we have a strong lock stable (not sure iv ever written that). One thing iv noticed over the years that some players can take a full season to get back to good form after suffering a serious injury so its not all too surprising to me that he's a bit off the boil. I think he'll be back to his best by 2017 and hopefully he creates some competition for a starting spot.

Skelton I'm still not sold on. With experience he might be able to plug the holes in his game. at the same time, the older he gets I suspect he'll lose a bit of his dynamism

BDA, I think we've come from a period of weakness, where Big Kev was our only good lock, to a period of strength. I really like Douglas, and now we have new young front-runners who have the potential to be world-class. It's all good. Go Wobs!
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Slipper, Douglas and Skelton are all taking some considerable time to recover from physical repairs. Let's hope they get a decent rest before tackling next year's Super Rugby season.
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
I just do not understand the need for Skelton in any 23 for the Wallabies. It puts more pressure on our back row in the lineout. Surely Douglas or Simmons are the ticket with the set piece most likely playing a big role this week?
With the elevation of Arnold and Coleman and some other excellent prospects coming through the NRC what does he bring that we do not already have?
 

Dalai Ninja

Ward Prentice (10)
I just do not understand the need for Skelton in any 23 for the Wallabies. It puts more pressure on our back row in the lineout. Surely Douglas or Simmons are the ticket with the set piece most likely playing a big role this week?
With the elevation of Arnold and Coleman and some other excellent prospects coming through the NRC what does he bring that we do not already have?
Skelton is still an enticing prospect, if he can deliver on his potential. Cheika clearly believes he can bring Skelton on. At his best he's like a monster eight, carrying players over the gain line and taking them out of the next play. The problem has been too little of that for the lineout price.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Skelton is a an interesting choice, hopefully his work on the training ground is why, but he is a player in transition, he has been doing a lot more actual lock work this season but less of the stuff that got him into the Wobs early.

But with Mumm and Skelton on the bench we do have two of best defensive maul units in the country in the squad
 
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KOB1987

John Eales (66)
I think fardy getting dropped for mumm is pretty harsh. Like slipper he's been ho-hum this year but i thought he played one of his better games off the bench last week.

But whatever. Must be there to offset skelton in the lineout.still Chieka seems to have a hard on for mumm (thats not a diss on mumm, just an observation)

It seems to be more of a soft on for Fardy. And Douglas.

Slipper out, Robertson in.

I don't mind Willy getting 20 minutes at the end.

Looks like MC is going to roll out the 'best' starting XV each week and tinker with the bench to cover the contingencies of each game. Good approach I reckon.
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
Oh, its been said. Repeating: The bench wtf?

There could be an element of giving some of the fringe players a run off the bench too (well two in this instance at least). If we send out the same 23 each weekend then 10 players don't get a run at all except for the French Baa Baas game.
 
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G

galumay

Guest
No real surprise for me there, I said earlier I expected Genia to start this game. Big Willy was always going to get some pine time, Cheika didn't fly him over there for the strawberries and cream.

Will be interesting to see if the perceived improvements in the Wallabies performance across the park are confirmed in a game against slightly better opponents in worse conditions.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
But if he was interested in giving fringe players a run off the bench surely he would have given them more time last week?

Didn't Quade play about 4 minutes for example?

It's more selective logic. Kind of like the combinations which he thought were so important 2 games ago........
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
Quade's not really a fringe player though, he's going to be in the 23 every week. By fringe players I mean the ones who would have been left at home if we only took 23 players, or those who could have been bracketed with others. I don't dispute he should have got more time last week and I'm sure he will get plenty on the tour.
 

PeterK

Alfred Walker (16)
The only selection I see no logic for is Mumm for Fardy.
I see the logic of a 6:2 bench in the wet.
I see the logic in Simmons and a 6/utility in case the lineouts go pear shaped.
However you would think that means Pocock would be taken off which means Fardy is needed for the breakdowns in the wet.
Sure if Hooper was taken off instead but that won't happen.

Skelton is very good in mauls both defense and attack.
If Skelton is on then Pocock (never Hooper with Cheika) should be off so then there will be 3 lineout targets.

Obviously Cheika has a lot of time for Mumm.
He is quoted as saying Timani has forced him to keep picking him. So it looks like as soon as Timani has a slightly off game Mumm will start.
 
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