Schoolboy Rugby Violence

[forwards4ever]

forwards4ever, am I right in my interpretation of what you are reporting?

One of the alleged perpetrators (a 16 year old child) has been effectively banned from playing any rugby without having that sentence imposed by any Judicial procedure where at least the child (or their representative) is able to put forward their own evidence or make a statement to be considered in mitigation!

This is an absolute farce. No matter how guilty the player may be, they deserve to have their side of the story to be heard.

It would appear that SJRU need to seriously lift their game, or hand over administration of the Under 16 and above competition to an organisation that is better able to manage it.

I can't imagine NSW Subbies dilly dallying around like this.

Your interpretation is correct! the 16 year old has not fronted, nor been called to front a judiciary or other citing body in Rugby! SJRU has done ....?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Crikey, On what "authority" has this child been stood down from playing rugby then if it was not SJRU Judiciary?

Sounds very "Dodgy Brothers".

 

[forwards4ever]

I believe SJRU's authority!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That is all right them. Great to see that the Administrators support their Judiciary, and the principles of natural justice.

We are fortunate to have such capable personages in charge of our Juniors Game.

And here is me thinking that the Dodgy Brothers were in charge.

 

[sarcophilus]

criticisms are easy, but given regestrations are probably not completed for the clubs, has the 16 year old adolescent or any others of the mob involved expressed interest in persuing rugby this year? would you be inclined to if by paying your $200 rego you werent or may not be going to take part until the second half of the year (I dont know the charges or potential sanctions but given the level of interest they may be substantial if found true)
if not can the potential suspension be carried until they do sign up or in absentia .
has a judisery been formed or intrusted given the season isnt likely to start for a little while yet

all up can a non existent pannel make any judgement on players that are not registered

 

[Man on the hill]

& round 1 for a new season kicks off tonight - any word on where this cartwheeling cluster$%^& is at?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

In a normal world the kids would be playing Under 17 this year. There is no Sunday Under 17's competition registered on Buddha. There is an Opens A and Opens B Competition.

Last Year Coogee had a Under 16 and Under 17 Team. From those two teams eligible to make up an Opens A or Opens B team, there is no Coogee Seahorses team registered in Opens A or Opens B. The Coogee U17 team last year was basically the Randwick District team that played NSW State Champs and they made it to the Final of the State Champs.

Buddha has a Sylvania Bulldogs Team listed in Opens A Sunday Competition.

One wonders how much this incident, how it was handled, and the repercussions, may have contributed in some way to the inability of Coogee/Randwick to be able to field one team in the Open competition from the two teams they had last season.

How many of those kids are now lost to rugby?

The player drain in U16s and above needs to be urgently addressed. Independent Schools are OK and they provide plenty of opportunities for their 16 -18 year olds to stay in rugby. The options are very limited for the other kids in the CHS, CCC, and AICES education environment if SJRU can not offer a viable alternative.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The player drain in U16s and above needs to be urgently addressed. Independent Schools are OK and they provide plenty of opportunities for their 16 -18 year olds to stay in rugby. The options are very limited for the other kids in the CHS, CCC, and AICES education environment if SJRU can not offer a viable alternative.

Like!
I wonder does that unpaid intern at ARU ever idly google, say, "nsw under 18 rugby" - these are the hits I got:

All but 2 are league and of the 2 that aren't 1 is schools.

 

[sarcophilus]

SJRU has codified the roles and requirements for teams to provide officials and crowd behavior

I belive not even gingers are aloud to be coachs ground marshals and water boys at the same time, and if the holy trinity of officials aren't in seperate bodies a team will be deamed to have forfiet.

the information is available on the SJRU web site

 

[Man on the hill]

& it makes it easier for everybody to enjoy their afternoon / morning / evening at the kids rugby!

Ignorance is not an excuse & clubs are now required to control their own buffoon supporters!

What could be easier?

 

[forwards4ever]

criticisms are easy, but given regestrations are probably not completed for the clubs, has the 16 year old adolescent or any others of the mob involved expressed interest in persuing rugby this year? would you be inclined to if by paying your $200 rego you werent or may not be going to take part until the second half of the year (I dont know the charges or potential sanctions but given the level of interest they may be substantial if found true)
if not can the potential suspension be carried until they do sign up or in absentia .
has a judisery been formed or intrusted given the season isnt likely to start for a little while yet

all up can a non existent pannel make any judgement on players that are not registered

Has anyone noticed that this whole team has disappeared! Not just the boy, for whom natural justice did not exist!
There go another 20 odd players. Wonder if they'll join colts when school finishes? Or has rugby left them feeling distinctly disenchanted!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ See Post 127.

I suspect that some of the boys have jumped up into Colts rugby as 16/17 year olds while still at school, with the balance "lost to rugby".

Shame.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

./...snip.../. .

A different snout also tells me that the melee that lead to 2 x red cards at Trinity Vs Cranbrook last Saturday looked like it may have included the schoolboys in the stands behind the field as the boundaries between the 2 groups became blurred. No doubt they were also trying to break it up!

This post from August last year.

In isolation it means little, but there were alleged issues again on the weekend between these two schools. The details behind precisely what the issues are will hopefully be investigated by the Schools, and it is not intended to discuss them in fine detail further here.

There is obviously some history to the issues between fringe elements within these two sets of schoolboys.

Hope they can sort it out before the return match.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A very well connected snout tells me that not only has the Coogee Seahorse boy still not been in front of judiciary, but that one of what could be described as a "person of interest" to this whole farce has been parachuted into the 2013 Sydney Juniors Under 17 representative team despite not attending any of the trials.

Our game is in good hands. "Yeah Right" as the NZ beer billboards go. http://www.buzzfeed.com/copyranter/the-best-of-the-tasteless-tuis-billboards

We approach the first anniversary of the "incident" and the boy appears to have been issued with a 48 week ban from rugby without needing to appear before a judiciary.

When movers and shakers like George Smith, Inside Shoulder and Mark Arbib are questioning the very existence and relevance of organisations like the Sydney Juniors. one would think that the current incumbents would at least try to prove that they actually add value, and are relevant and useful.
Continuing to behave as they always have is a recipe to be oblivion and to be ignored as if they were two flies fornicating on the gigantic dungheap of life.

 

[Man on the hill]

A friend observed to me the other day about the changes at Subbies rugby - a few years ago this sort of situation would linger in the in-trays of the well meaning for a dreadful long time. Now days - the meet once a month committee has been replaced by an on the ball 7 days a week CEO type who asks for forgiveness rather than permission - and the Subbies board backs him!

I expect that the SJRU board are all decent types - but there is only so much you can realistically get through in one monthly meeting and numerous out of regular job hours phone calls.

Maybe that's the change they need?

 

[Old schooled]

In a normal world the kids would be playing Under 17 this year. There is no Sunday Under 17's competition registered on Buddha. There is an Opens A and Opens B Competition.

Last Year Coogee had a Under 16 and Under 17 Team. From those two teams eligible to make up an Opens A or Opens B team, there is no Coogee Seahorses team registered in Opens A or Opens B. The Coogee U17 team last year was basically the Randwick District team that played NSW State Champs and they made it to the Final of the State Champs.

Buddha has a Sylvania Bulldogs Team listed in Opens A Sunday Competition.

One wonders how much this incident, how it was handled, and the repercussions, may have contributed in some way to the inability of Coogee/Randwick to be able to field one team in the Open competition from the two teams they had last season.

How many of those kids are now lost to rugby?

The player drain in U16s and above needs to be urgently addressed. Independent Schools are OK and they provide plenty of opportunities for their 16 -18 year olds to stay in rugby. The options are very limited for the other kids in the CHS, CCC, and AICES education environment if SJRU can not offer a viable alternative.

As a parent of an Under 17 Coogee and Randwick team member from 2012 I can clear up as to why at least the under 17's team has not continued.
8 Waverley boys, 2 at Newington are in year 12 and playing opens at school, a few into colts as school does not have sport for year 12. Some just natural attrition.Numerous others are working towards HSC as well.
Not enough time to cope with both training and playing for school and club.
A number of the team have progressed to higher levels NSW and Aust Schools limiting their availability.
Most I think you will find turn out for The Myrtle Green next year for Colts.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

../...snip.../..
A number of the team have progressed to higher levels NSW and Aust Schools limiting their availability.
Most I think you will find turn out for The Myrtle Green next year for Colts.

It would be good to see the more "talented" of the boys return to their grass roots district and not be attracted to play Colts for one of the more predatory Clubs.

Note that Uni is not the only club who is prepared to go after "talented" boys from "out of district".

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A friend observed to me the other day about the changes at Subbies rugby - a few years ago this sort of situation would linger in the in-trays of the well meaning for a dreadful long time. Now days - the meet once a month committee has been replaced by an on the ball 7 days a week CEO type who asks for forgiveness rather than permission - and the Subbies board backs him!

I expect that the SJRU board are all decent types - but there is only so much you can realistically get through in one monthly meeting and numerous out of regular job hours phone calls.

Maybe that's the change they need?

That would probably be better value for money than the rumoured $100 k that is allocated for the Office of the Australian Junior Rugby Union.

 

[Rassie]

In terms of standardised guidance for Illegal and/or Foul Play and Misconduct, IRB Regulation 17 applies, and is used by nearly all judiciaries to assist to determine sanctions for citings.

Perhaps the various Sydney Schools Competition organisers should use these guidelines for Open Grade Schoolboy rugby, as opposed the loose motherhood statements for boys getting "red carded" that have been previously quoted from the ISA and CAS competition rules on this thread.

These are the sort of sanctions they will face in Colts, Grade and Subbies (as well as SJRU) judiciaries.

Judiciary Entry Point Based on Scale of Seriousness of the Player’s conduct, which constitutes the offending.

Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Verbal Abuse of Match Officials,
Lower End 6 weeks, Mid Range 12 weeks, Top End 18+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Physical Abuse of Match Officials
Lower End 24 weeks, Mid Range 48 weeks, Top End 96+ weeks, Maximum Sanction Life

Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Threatening Actions or Words at Match Officials
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 24 weeks, Top End 48+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 260 weeks

Law No.10.4(a) Striking another Player with a hand, arm or fist
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 8+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(a) Striking another Player with the elbow
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks,Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(a) Striking with knee
Lower End 3 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(a) Striking with head
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 104 weeks

Law No 10.4(b) Stamping on an Opponent
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(b) Trampling on an Opponent
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(c) Kicking an Opponent
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(d) Tripping an Opponent with the foot/leg
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 7+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(e) Dangerous tackling of an Opponent including early or late and including the action known as the “stiff arm tackle”
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 6 weeks, Top End 10+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(f) Holding, pushing or obstructing an Opponent not holding the ball except in a scrum, ruck or maul
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 6+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(f) Dangerous charging or obstructing or grabbing of Opponent without the ball, including shouldering
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(g) Dangerous charging or obstructing or grabbing of Opponent with the ball, including shouldering
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(i) Causing a scrum, ruck or maul to collapse
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 8+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(k) Testicle grabbing or twisting or squeezing
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 208 weeks

Law No 10.4(k) Biting
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 208 weeks

Law No 10.4(k) Contact with Eyes or the Eye Area
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 156 weeks

Law No 10.4(k) Spitting at Players
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 7 weeks, Top End 11+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

Law No 10.4(k) Verbal abuse of Players based on Religion, Race, Colour, or National or Ethnic Origin or otherwise
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 13+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks

I wonder if they have a similar thing in senior rugby?

 

[Rassie]

can't think of another sport where you sit down and break bread with the guy who just broke your nose. It's a lifestyle, a brotherhood.