Brian Westlake
Arch Winning (36)
Yes, I found that a one week stand down for drastic changes in dietary habits is a little confusing. I know that one parent is not overly chuffed about it and has been told to let it goby the school.
Schoolboy Rugby Violence
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
For "silly" schoolboy red cards of a minor nature, one week stand down is probably enough and is consistent with SJRU.
Once kids hit opens, there should be consistency with ARU (and I think IRB) guidelines for penalties. It has been a while since I sat on a judiciary and used the suggested sanctions list, but IIRC kicking a player was significantly more than a one week stand down.
It is time for the schoolboy competitions to standardize their judiciary procedures and sanctions with the ARU guidelines.
Once kids hit opens, there should be consistency with ARU (and I think IRB) guidelines for penalties. It has been a while since I sat on a judiciary and used the suggested sanctions list, but IIRC kicking a player was significantly more than a one week stand down.
It is time for the schoolboy competitions to standardize their judiciary procedures and sanctions with the ARU guidelines.
Karl
Bill McLean (32)
Reading this thread, jeese, what a kerfuffle. I've never seen anything like it or heard of it in the BJRU. Worst I saw were some parents offering suggestions to the Ref who, when pulled up for it, started saying things in their native language that sounded and were timed such that they seemed remarkably like further suggestions. Then the game was over and they left. My eldest sons team had a complaint made against them once for pinching, a formal one too, but given the ref had actually asked 2 of their players, not ours, to
Calm down and we won by 3 against a team that fancied themselves, and that a specific and adamant accusation related to a player that was actually in the medical tent at the time of the alleged second half incident with ice on a swollen cheek bone, our explanation that we had no idea what they were talking about was quickly accepted.
Calm down and we won by 3 against a team that fancied themselves, and that a specific and adamant accusation related to a player that was actually in the medical tent at the time of the alleged second half incident with ice on a swollen cheek bone, our explanation that we had no idea what they were talking about was quickly accepted.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
In terms of standardised guidance for Illegal and/or Foul Play and Misconduct, IRB Regulation 17 applies, and is used by nearly all judiciaries to assist to determine sanctions for citings.
Perhaps the various Sydney Schools Competition organisers should use these guidelines for Open Grade Schoolboy rugby, as opposed the loose motherhood statements for boys getting "red carded" that have been previously quoted from the ISA and CAS competition rules on this thread.
These are the sort of sanctions they will face in Colts, Grade and Subbies (as well as SJRU) judiciaries.
Judiciary Entry Point Based on Scale of Seriousness of the Player’s conduct, which constitutes the offending.
Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Verbal Abuse of Match Officials,
Lower End 6 weeks, Mid Range 12 weeks, Top End 18+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Physical Abuse of Match Officials
Lower End 24 weeks, Mid Range 48 weeks, Top End 96+ weeks, Maximum Sanction Life
Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Threatening Actions or Words at Match Officials
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 24 weeks, Top End 48+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 260 weeks
Law No.10.4(a) Striking another Player with a hand, arm or fist
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 8+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(a) Striking another Player with the elbow
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks,Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(a) Striking with knee
Lower End 3 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(a) Striking with head
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 104 weeks
Law No 10.4(b) Stamping on an Opponent
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(b) Trampling on an Opponent
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(c) Kicking an Opponent
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(d) Tripping an Opponent with the foot/leg
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 7+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(e) Dangerous tackling of an Opponent including early or late and including the action known as the “stiff arm tackle”
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 6 weeks, Top End 10+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(f) Holding, pushing or obstructing an Opponent not holding the ball except in a scrum, ruck or maul
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 6+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(f) Dangerous charging or obstructing or grabbing of Opponent without the ball, including shouldering
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(g) Dangerous charging or obstructing or grabbing of Opponent with the ball, including shouldering
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(i) Causing a scrum, ruck or maul to collapse
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 8+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Testicle grabbing or twisting or squeezing
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 208 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Biting
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 208 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Contact with Eyes or the Eye Area
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 156 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Spitting at Players
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 7 weeks, Top End 11+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Verbal abuse of Players based on Religion, Race, Colour, or National or Ethnic Origin or otherwise
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 13+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Perhaps the various Sydney Schools Competition organisers should use these guidelines for Open Grade Schoolboy rugby, as opposed the loose motherhood statements for boys getting "red carded" that have been previously quoted from the ISA and CAS competition rules on this thread.
These are the sort of sanctions they will face in Colts, Grade and Subbies (as well as SJRU) judiciaries.
Judiciary Entry Point Based on Scale of Seriousness of the Player’s conduct, which constitutes the offending.
Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Verbal Abuse of Match Officials,
Lower End 6 weeks, Mid Range 12 weeks, Top End 18+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Physical Abuse of Match Officials
Lower End 24 weeks, Mid Range 48 weeks, Top End 96+ weeks, Maximum Sanction Life
Law No.6.A.5, 10.4(k) Threatening Actions or Words at Match Officials
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 24 weeks, Top End 48+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 260 weeks
Law No.10.4(a) Striking another Player with a hand, arm or fist
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 8+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(a) Striking another Player with the elbow
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks,Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(a) Striking with knee
Lower End 3 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(a) Striking with head
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 104 weeks
Law No 10.4(b) Stamping on an Opponent
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(b) Trampling on an Opponent
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(c) Kicking an Opponent
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 12+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(d) Tripping an Opponent with the foot/leg
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 7+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(e) Dangerous tackling of an Opponent including early or late and including the action known as the “stiff arm tackle”
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 6 weeks, Top End 10+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(f) Holding, pushing or obstructing an Opponent not holding the ball except in a scrum, ruck or maul
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 6+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(f) Dangerous charging or obstructing or grabbing of Opponent without the ball, including shouldering
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(g) Dangerous charging or obstructing or grabbing of Opponent with the ball, including shouldering
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 5 weeks, Top End 9+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(i) Causing a scrum, ruck or maul to collapse
Lower End 2 weeks, Mid Range 4 weeks, Top End 8+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Testicle grabbing or twisting or squeezing
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 208 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Biting
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 208 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Contact with Eyes or the Eye Area
Lower End 12 weeks, Mid Range 18 weeks, Top End 24+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 156 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Spitting at Players
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 7 weeks, Top End 11+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
Law No 10.4(k) Verbal abuse of Players based on Religion, Race, Colour, or National or Ethnic Origin or otherwise
Lower End 4 weeks, Mid Range 8 weeks, Top End 13+ weeks, Maximum Sanction 52 weeks
AngrySeahorse
Peter Sullivan (51)
No way, not me. I'm an angel
.I can empathise with the different view points on here about refereeing & poor player behaviour (to put it lightly). I def agree poor refereeing can lead to players getting the shits & taking it out on the field - I've seen some of these games get very messy.
That being said we can't play without ref's & I try very hard to be tolerant because they are human & make mistakes. I also know I would not be able to do the job specially from what I have observed at Junior level in Newcastle.
As far as on field issues go I think discipline comes from within the club & owning up for issues. Swallowing your pride & admitting you're in the wrong seems to be too hard for some clubs. We have a club re-entering the Newcastle comp next year & have admitted they had discipline problems - top stuff & an example of a club taking responsibility. There is hope for us all yet.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
I dont like this negative threads when it come to schoolboy rugby. Rugby aint a sussie sport and it is suppose to be a contact sport. Schoolboy rugby is very much a passionate thing. Passionate from the parents mostly and a very thin line between sportive or not. Schoolboys is teenagers and teenagers do stupid things. Obvious you'd find the oversteppers but then the refs and coaches is amateurs mostly and do their job in their free time without pay and is called amateurs. Meaning you cant expect them to know all the rugby shite you see from club/S15/Test level. Anyway with the bad comes the good and the positives with rugby on this level. Rugby have a unique spirit and sportmanship you really wont see in most sports and probably more reason to open threads but it dont seem to happen.
Wood Rat
Alfred Walker (16)
I had the pleasure of being at the Lindfield V Newport U/15 Major semi on Sunday
A healthy rivalry has developped between these two teams
A tough physical match with the lads on both sides still fealing it today I am sure
The genuine good will betwen spectators and players on both sides is a model and reminder of the good things in Rugby
A healthy rivalry has developped between these two teams
A tough physical match with the lads on both sides still fealing it today I am sure
The genuine good will betwen spectators and players on both sides is a model and reminder of the good things in Rugby
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
Unfortunately, this season will be recalled for many of the wrong reasons - more memories of this nature are needed.
I can send you in the direction of a few U10 games where organisers have literally called in the cavalry in an attempt to bring parents / supporters under control.
In truth - the picture you paint is more common than my U10 example, but isn't it a sad reflection that we even have a thread of this description!
Wood Rat
Alfred Walker (16)
I havn't been to the meetings but apparently the first step to fixing a problem is to admit it exists.
Unfortunately looking at some of the excuses above there are still some young heads that won't take ownership of their behavior and look to blame every/any one else for their reactions. Tribalism is part of the journey to adulthood and reflected on as part of the fun of life, but you do grow out of it. Unfortunately this is a mental thing not cronological and a lot of us don't get past a 12 year old head space.
Unless we can paint a picture of how something should look its hard to get any-one else there.
Unfortunately looking at some of the excuses above there are still some young heads that won't take ownership of their behavior and look to blame every/any one else for their reactions. Tribalism is part of the journey to adulthood and reflected on as part of the fun of life, but you do grow out of it. Unfortunately this is a mental thing not cronological and a lot of us don't get past a 12 year old head space.
Unless we can paint a picture of how something should look its hard to get any-one else there.
southsider
Arch Winning (36)
dont think youve read the thread very well if you think that people on here are condoning this type of behaviour...especially from spectators
Wood Rat
Alfred Walker (16)
Thank You
No one is condoning/ Very few are excusing this behavior clearly, but if you read the comments there is a lot of finger pointing and the sought of excuses you get from Gen Y children tht have learnt that if you can claim to be a victim or are compelled by a force out of their control "I am ADHD or I have a disorder that stops me following instruction" you can win most arguments. They are not asked to take responsibility for their actions.
they strted it
the ref didnt control me
there was niggle but the others did the real bad thing
this is a loose interpretation of some of the posts above, If you look through the thread I have been watching it and commenting for some time
My comment was a follow on from a coversation tht can be seen in the two points earlier to which MOTH replied
I blame their Grandparents
Wood Rat
Alfred Walker (16)
I think praising the good is as important a punnishing the bad
the lads on display in the game mentioned again demonstrated the constructive thing Rugby is. There are a number of lads that will be representing the state in these teams and the dicipline demonstrateded in the match ws something worth mentioning in this thread
the lads on display in the game mentioned again demonstrated the constructive thing Rugby is. There are a number of lads that will be representing the state in these teams and the dicipline demonstrateded in the match ws something worth mentioning in this thread
southsider
Arch Winning (36)
Thank You
No one is condoning/ Very few are excusing this behavior clearly, but if you read the comments there is a lot of finger pointing and the sought of excuses you get from Gen Y children tht have learnt that if you can claim to be a victim or are compelled by a force out of their control "I am ADHD or I have a disorder that stops me following instruction" you can win most arguments. They are not asked to take responsibility for their actions.
they strted it
the ref didnt control me
there was niggle but the others did the real bad thing
this is a loose interpretation of some of the posts above, If you look through the thread I have been watching it and commenting for some time
My comment was a follow on from a coversation tht can be seen in the two points earlier to which MOTH replied
I blame their Grandparents
ahh so your one of those old bitter guys who like to "fingerpoint" younger generations as the problem and talk about how much better your generation did things.....well guess what your generation raised Gen Y so clearly in your own eyes you didnt do a very good job aye
taking out your sweeping generalisations again nobody is condoning what is happening and nobody is saying "outside factors are the sole reason these incidents are occuring" but there ARE other factors that are influencing some of these incidents as can be seen in the severity and frequency compared to past years
Wood Rat
Alfred Walker (16)
I honestly thought I was posting something possitive
sharing something I enjoyed on the weekend involving a group of young men you seem to think I amgeneralising about
this post is about violence on the field and off or adjacent to the field, and as I said fixing something that we all agree is a problem, requires some level of ownership
, I see plenty of 30 40 50 and so on year olds carrying on like 12 year olds as well as stated.... Mental age not cronological. I just put a number on it for point of reference (my apology to all the 12 year olds that are in control of their behavior and take full responsability for it)
so I have praised some
criticized some
in any generation you want
us bitter old bastards dont own all of it
I do see you are still making excusses
sharing something I enjoyed on the weekend involving a group of young men you seem to think I amgeneralising about
this post is about violence on the field and off or adjacent to the field, and as I said fixing something that we all agree is a problem, requires some level of ownership
, I see plenty of 30 40 50 and so on year olds carrying on like 12 year olds as well as stated.... Mental age not cronological. I just put a number on it for point of reference (my apology to all the 12 year olds that are in control of their behavior and take full responsability for it)
so I have praised some
criticized some
in any generation you want
us bitter old bastards dont own all of it
I do see you are still making excusses
southsider
Arch Winning (36)
we arnt even discussing what you saw on the weekend totally different point....
but as for the rest ive decided your right, Gen Y are a terrible generation that find excuses for everything they do and are always wrong and inferior to previous generations. Furthermore there is never any reasons for escalated violenece on the football field other than the players themselves being stupid...im sorry to have had a different opinion
FYI kids who are 12 years old arnt part of Gen Y
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
want to share something very special from our Paarl interschools two weeks back. Its the biggest scoolboy match you'd get with 20,000 + spectators and on live TV. Paarl Gim was ahead 16-9 in the second half. Paarl Boishaai was on attack and their 13 midfielder was over the tryline and before he could dot the ball down was pushed over the sideline. This try could have level the scorelines and interschools being this u18s most important match of their career he sure was disappointed. One of the Paarl Gim players who was his roomie at SA's Academic Week (Craven Week for the U18 provincial B teams) gave him a hard luck comfort right after the incident which explain a lot when you understand that there is always something bigger then winning or losing when it come to rugby culture and sportmanship and spirit.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
& our next entrant in the pinhead of the year competition is in - a supporter for clocking an AR at Tantalon yesterday. The AR had refereed the previous game and obviuolsy done something to upset the nature of things - receveing the first whack from behind with no warning.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
& we wonder why - go read the Scots v Shore blog and ask yourself how the GAGR guardians allow such critical refereee sentiment to be expressed in what I always assumed was a carefully edited section (match reports)
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
My usually reliable source was unable to provide any update on the results of any police or rugby judiciary outcome from the Seahorses v Bulldogs game, way back when.
One would hope that any police investigation would have been completed by now, and charges laid or dismissed.
Any impediment to rugby judiciary would be removed if the Police have finished their work.
One would hope that any police investigation would have been completed by now, and charges laid or dismissed.
Any impediment to rugby judiciary would be removed if the Police have finished their work.
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