Schoolboy Rugby Violence

[kbw]

HJ,
you and I both know the likely outcome, ... nothing. It will be swept under the carpet and the idiots from the shire (as opposed to those good people that are down there) will assume that they are justified in their disgraceful behavior.

 

[Man on the hill]

HJ,
you and I both know the likely outcome, . nothing. It will be swept under the carpet and the idiots from the shire (as opposed to those good people that are down there) will assume that they are justified in their disgraceful behavior.

no mention of the disgraceful behaviour of the seahorse team?



In all likelihood the police will be unable to find the truth and then SJRU will feel totally vindicated for doing nothing - on count 1 spectators are not participants and therefore likely not covered by code of conduct etc & count 2 - "hey the police couldn't sort it out - what hope for us?"



If SJRU had a set, both teams and all players might be expelled and MEGA hefty fines levied against both clubs - but hey, a guy can dream can't he?

 

[Jasdec]

In country rugby league in some Groups, if not all, spectators are definitely covered by a code of conduct as soon as they step on a field or come through the gates. They have signs up everywhere outlining expectations of players, parents and spectators. If the wheels fall off then they are open to the full force of the law and the individual clubs are also liable through the Group. This has certainly been beneficial to all concerned, not perfect, however has drawn a line in the sand from the bad old days.

 

[Man on the hill]

In country rugby league in some Groups, if not all, spectators are definitely covered by a code of conduct as soon as they step on a field or come through the gates. They have signs up everywhere outlining expectations of players, parents and spectators. If the wheels fall off then they are open to the full force of the law and the individual clubs are also liable through the Group. This has certainly been beneficial to all concerned, not perfect, however has drawn a line in the sand from the bad old days.

stand by to see "conditions of entry" signs at rugby grounds next year for exactly this purpose

 

[Hugh Jarse]

In Gordon Juniors District, the Code of Conduct is prominently displayed, and has been so for many years now.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And is prominently ignored on a regular basis


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[Hugh Jarse]

Compliance with the displayed code of conduct for spectators rests with Ground Marshalls and Team Management working together with the Referee/AR.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Compliance with the displayed code of conduct for spectators rests with Ground Marshalls and Team Management working together with the Referee/AR.

Hard when they're involved


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[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^

A couple of years back, I have even seen a Senior SJRU Zone official drinking beer at a Friday Night game giving the referee a real gob full of abuse.

This official has a history of being overly vocal, however I would have thought that they would have had better judgement to realise that it was not a good look to be doing that with a can of alcohol in hand. Not his first for the night either.

Alcohol and Junior Sport is just not a good look.

 

[Jasdec]

Hard when they're involved
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Sounds like a conspiracy theory if they are all involved?

I am not familiar with the SJRU system however it only usually takes one example being set by someone with the kahunas to do it for the rest to re evaluate their stance from the sideline. I have seen examples in RL where the game is stopped, usually by the ref, until the person exits the ground. If they don't then police are called and they are removed. Once people get the idea that they won't see little Johnny or little Jasmine play the game they love it hits home fairly quickly.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Jasdec not at all - it's a specific occasion


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[Hugh Jarse]

Coming back to the specific as opposed general, as I understand it and reported in the papers the Police did attend Sylvania's oval, as did a couple of ambulances (for the injuries during the game not from the ensuing fracas post game).

Snouts have confirmed that there was more than a hint of consumption of grog at the venue on the day, and I think another poster has also said similar on this thread.

I'm just keen to understand what measures if any will be adopted by SJRU to prevent similar situations arising. The action on the judiciary front seems to be somewhat masonic if there has been any at all, although I am slightly more of an idealist than kbw in that I am hoping that someone, somewhere in rugbdom will take some preventative action as a result of this disgraceful incident.

My interest is also based on a feeling that the SJRU is not the right agency to be dealing with club footy at the U16-U18 level. Many posters have identified that U16 - U18 junior club footy in Sydney is a pathway that needs special attention due to the player and team number drop off as the more intense School games and programmes prevent kids from playing both school and club games.

To grow, our game must have a viable (and safe) pathway for talented kids who are not at the prestigious private schools with aggressive rugby programmes, as well as the future suburban club 300+ game veterans.

At the moment this does not appear to be there and it may be timely on the back of the Arbib Governance Review that we review the various pathways and try to make the transition from junior village clubs and schools into colts and on to Grade/Academies/Subbies and Super rugby a little more seamless.

IMHO there is an argument that U16 onwards should by a Colts type administration leaving the Mums and Dads based SJRU to deal with the junior high school and below age groups.

Having opened this rant with a statement about getting down to the specific rather than the general, it has wandered off into a very generalist dream cloud.

My new point is would the District Clubs Colts organisation under SRU have handled this situation any differently?

 

[Jasdec]

My interest is also based on a feeling that the SJRU is not the right agency to be dealing with club footy at the U16-U18 level. Many posters have identified that U16 - U18 junior club footy in Sydney is a pathway that needs special attention due to the player and team number drop off as the more intense School games and programmes prevent kids from playing both school and club games.

IMHO there is an argument that U16 onwards should by a Colts type administration leaving the Mums and Dads based SJRU to deal with the junior high school and below age groups.

HJ
Again I have to agree with your "rant".
Thankyou IS for giving some background i.e. specific incident.

I apologise for harping back to our RL cousins, however out in the bush, the junior clubs end at 16yo with the next stepup being 18's which is administered by the Seniors. Therefore you have 18s, Reserves and First Grade being governed by the Senior Clubs and NSW CRL.

I would agree that U17 and U18 should be part of the senior clubs and would offer a definitive path to their colts programme which would not involve GPS/CAS players. I am not sure how this would work or be received by the senior clubs however if it is run along the same lines as the Colts it could possibly be OK. (Wiser heads than mine could give us an answer). It would certainly pick up a few of the "lost" players. Again like HJ I think this has gone off on another tangent and probably now belongs in another thread.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

HJ
Again I have to agree with your "rant".
Thankyou IS for giving some background i.e. specific incident.

I apologise for harping back to our RL cousins, however out in the bush, the junior clubs end at 16yo with the next stepup being 18's which is administered by the Seniors. Therefore you have 18s, Reserves and First Grade being governed by the Senior Clubs and NSW CRL.

I would agree that U17 and U18 should be part of the senior clubs and would offer a definitive path to their colts programme which would not involve GPS/CAS players. I am not sure how this would work or be received by the senior clubs however if it is run along the same lines as the Colts it could possibly be OK. (Wiser heads than mine could give us an answer). It would certainly pick up a few of the "lost" players. Again like HJ I think this has gone off on another tangent and probably now belongs in another thread.

I hear today a move for colts to run an annexed u17 comp.
Seems like a great idea - perhaps in the wrong thread.


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[kbw]

no mention of the disgraceful behaviour of the seahorse team?

fair call, but I will prefix that by saying the "tales" told by independent witnesses was one not too flattering for the Shire team.
Neither sides would be blameless but I have experiences with both teams and I have the feeling that the "tales" aren't far from the truth.

 

[Man on the hill]

IMHO there is an argument that U16 onwards should by a Colts type administration leaving the Mums and Dads based SJRU to deal with the junior high school and below age groups.

Having opened this rant with a statement about getting down to the specific rather than the general, it has wandered off into a very generalist dream cloud.

My new point is would the District Clubs Colts organisation under SRU have handled this situation any differently?

Yes that age needs a very specific focus, but creating yet another organisation will not be the answer & nor is booting it "upstairs" to the generals in charge of Shute shield - then it would run the risk of being lost in the black hole of colts, which for most clubs really means boys that have already left school.

 

[kbw]

no mention of the disgraceful behaviour of the seahorse team?

No and I guess there should be, except that in this case some of the behaviour exhibited by the non-seahorses was far beyond the bad and occurred 2km from the ground.

Both teams were out of order and this sort of rubbish happens when people forget even at U16s its still a kids sport.

There is a lot of talk about pathways but we lose focus that the most important pathway in rugby and one it does so well is the pathway that allows any kid of any ability to play Rugby Union for as long as they like even into their 80s.

 

[forwards4ever]

Here we are just 1 month from the start of a new season of Junior Rugby, and there has been no word on this case. I understand that one of the protaganists was suspended till the police finished dealing with this case. As far as I know they have, but still no action from SJRU or its judiciary! Seems somewhat unfair to the player suspended in limbo. In the adult world you are innocent until proven guilty. Here he doesn't even get to go to court!!
As a 16 year old he deserves better, especially as there were a great many varying accounts as to what actually happened in this game. There were clearly many more than one offender in this mess!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

forwards4ever, am I right in my interpretation of what you are reporting?

One of the alleged perpetrators (a 16 year old child) has been effectively banned from playing any rugby without having that sentence imposed by any Judicial procedure where at least the child (or their representative) is able to put forward their own evidence or make a statement to be considered in mitigation!

This is an absolute farce. No matter how guilty the player may be, they deserve to have their side of the story to be heard.

It would appear that SJRU need to seriously lift their game, or hand over administration of the Under 16 and above competition to an organisation that is better able to manage it.

I can't imagine NSW Subbies dilly dallying around like this.

 

[kbw]

with the administration filled with hobbits, if that kid is from Coogee, I expect limbo to be a rather long residence.
The bulge in the carpet in the shire is getting pretty sizable