Say It Ain't So!!! McCaw may be GONE...

[Swat]

Haven't we done something similar with the cricket team overseas? Recruiting an Aussie playing club or county cricket in the UK to carry the drinks as 12th man, and on occasions, the fellow has taken part in fielding as a substitute. IIRC a couple of years back the substitute took a couple of good catches at Lords or somewhere. As said here it is much easier to get a bloke in who is just down the road, as opposed to flying to the other side of the world.

We don't need to do that. We can just get punters out of the crowd like we did with Luke Pomersbach, sad to hear about his retirement due to depression though. Best of luck overcoming it.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/cricket/lukes-bizarre-carpark-call-up/story-e6frg26c-1111115089625

 

[MrTimms]

It has to be held somewhere, and that will always be advantageous to someone.

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[Jay]

Which is kind of my point. Its only fair when everyone is in the same situation. If the Minnows can only work with their 30 players + coaches, then the other teams should do likewise.

While Australia could relatively easily do the same thing, there will be nations where the travel distance or cost of doing so would be prohibitive and as such, the 'local' teams gain an advantage. Is it really particularly reasonable to provide that advantage?

They could solve the problem fairly easily by making a regulation that any player who took part in opposed training is prohibited from being called into the squad. Then the AB's (or whoever) would have to make do with people they had no intention of ever using.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm pretty sure this is just an advantage the home team can utilise.

The teams are only allowed to have 30 accredited players. Presumably Todd is either staying at another hotel or at the same hotel but paid for by NZRU rather than by the RWC.

Not overly fair, but I tend to think it is just a tacit advantage for the home team. Having the IRB police every team meeting, training session etc. to enforce the rule would seem a bit overzealous and detract from the RWC more than it would improve it imho.

I'm pretty sure it isn't and it is part of the reason they have the 48 hour rule.
On the other hand it seems from Shands comment that they considered the legalities and were satisfied with them- which ain't surprising.

Why have any limit on the size of the squad?


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[James Buchanan]

They could solve the problem fairly easily by making a regulation that any player who took part in opposed training is prohibited from being called into the squad. Then the AB's (or whoever) would have to make do with people they had no intention of ever using.

That's certainly a potential solution. I could imagine the foreign teams using local club sides potentially as well.

I'm not necessarily trying to solve a problem here, just highlight a issue that I see with a situation. If McCaw doesn't get replaced then it has little practical effect. However, if he does get replaced, I will raise a cynical eyebrow about all of it.

While they are getting the advantage of having extra resources at hand, I'm less concerned than if they'd done it against Romania or someone.

It has to be held somewhere, and that will always be advantageous to someone.

But the purpose of the rules is to provide as even a playing field as possible. Its one thing to permit something you cannot change, such as the advantage of a home crowd. Its another thing to provide, either explicitly or by absence of regulation a distinct advantage.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It must be legit under the rules - but why cant someone show us the rules: i just asked a citing commissioner of my acquaintance where I can get them and he sent me to the site where they tell you what happens in the event of draw.
If so the rules are wrong, unfair and should be changed.
In particular - lets suppose, just suppose, you have a player under an injury cloud but he is so important to your campaign you dont want to eject him from the squad. So you bring in a player to get up to speed on the latest thinking in the team, get him abreast of the latest tweaking of things just in case when the whips crack your key player cannot make the grade. When he cant you boot him from the squad and you have a bloke who is already up to speed, singing from the same song sheet etc. etc.

I'm not saying this would ever happen but it could

 

[Jay]

I could imagine the foreign teams using local club sides potentially as well.

I'm fairly sure that's exactly what does happen, to some extent. And, considering McCaw is essentially a week to week equation, I don't doubt that Henry etc did have it in the back of their mind that it would be advantageous to get a contender in the orbit at least.

 

[Groucho]

So we can take a squad of, say, 35 next time, and only use the surplus 5 players in 'opposed training' until 48 hours before they are formally included. Interesting.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So we can take a squad of, say, 35 next time, and only use the surplus 5 players in 'opposed training' until 48 hours before they are formally included. Interesting.

Or you could send them ahead to get the best tables at the Altitude Bar

 

[Jay]

So we can take a squad of, say, 35 next time, and only use the surplus 5 players in 'opposed training' until 48 hours before they are formally included. Interesting.

Other than Todd - who they're saying was in town cause his gf lives in Auckland - all the other players were Blues players, and the other time Todd trained against the AB's was in Chch. This would suggest they only use locals, and I'd imagine they wouldn't actually be allowed to pay for 'opposed trainers' to travel and stay with the team or be able to give them accreditation.

 

[Groucho]

The UK Telegraph is now reporting him as likely to be out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/8821508/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-New-Zealands-worst-fears-coming-true-with-Richie-McCaw-major-injury-doubt-for-semi-final.html

The All Blacks media management desperately tried to close the session when Victor Vito confessed more than he probably should at a press conference. The loose forward replacement said: "With Richie it's been the same for a little while, just managing his foot.

"We're trying to get our skipper back on the paddock. If it is so he cannot play then either myself or Thommo (Adam Thomson) will fill in there. Thommo is pretty good at the breakdown."

With that the players were ushered from the room. Too late. There were already suspicions. When the gate was finally lifted to let the media in for the final 15 minutes of All Blacks training, Richie McCaw exited the stage. It's tempting to say he did a runner, but he wasn't moving that quickly.

Wearing trainers to protect his feet, McCaw gingerly walked up the slope, pausing to sign a few autographs for the kids. He has been suffering since Sunday night's game. He has been suffering most of the year after having a pin inserted to relieve a stress fracture of the foot. McCaw calls it a niggle, the rest of New Zealand calls it a catastrophe.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Other than Todd - who they're saying was in town cause his gf lives in Auckland - all the other players were Blues players, and the other time Todd trained against the AB's was in Chch. This would suggest they only use locals, and I'd imagine they wouldn't actually be allowed to pay for 'opposed trainers' to travel and stay with the team or be able to give them accreditation.

Its still unfair because it makes it a lot easier to bring in the new player than it is for anyone else in the comp.
Unlike the other advantages of being the host this is an anomaly that can be readily addressed.
There's a column (at least) in this if Growden had the nous to write it....

 

[Jay]

Its still unfair because it makes it a lot easier to bring in the new player than it is for anyone else in the comp.
Unlike the other advantages of being the host this is an anomaly that can be readily addressed.
There's a column (at least) in this if Growden had the nous to write it....

I agree, but, assuming they're limited to whoever is in the same town they're training in, it's not like they've got carte blanche to bring in whichever player in NZ they feel like or keep a group of players on standby as groucho was suggesting.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I agree, but, assuming they're limited to whoever is in the same town they're training in, it's not like they've got carte blanche to bring in whichever player in NZ they feel like or keep a group of players on standby as groucho was suggesting.

Ok so the next step would be to have all contracted players move to Auckland.
I dont see how we can know what theyre doing: we all seem pretty taken aback that they can do it.
I take my citing commissioner mate's silence as an admission that there is a hole in the protocols and there is some embarrassment

 

[Budgie]

Which is kind of my point. Its only fair when everyone is in the same situation. If the Minnows can only work with their 30 players + coaches, then the other teams should do likewise.

While Australia could relatively easily do the same thing, there will be nations where the travel distance or cost of doing so would be prohibitive and as such, the 'local' teams gain an advantage. Is it really particularly reasonable to provide that advantage?

How far can you go to get a level playing field?
England has about 1 million players available for selection for their team, and 999,970 others to call on for back up if one of the squad does a "Dan Carter".
I think there are 5000 rugby players in Tonga.

How is this fair?

 

[James Buchanan]

Other than Todd - who they're saying was in town cause his gf lives in Auckland - all the other players were Blues players, and the other time Todd trained against the AB's was in Chch. This would suggest they only use locals, and I'd imagine they wouldn't actually be allowed to pay for 'opposed trainers' to travel and stay with the team or be able to give them accreditation.

The cynical side of me asks: So, when can we start expecting current "extended squad" players to be participating in "World Cup Tours", which unsurprisingly follow the nation's team, to watch all of their games. Of course, they'll be keeping fit "just in case they are needed" and since they "happen to be in town", the team can use them for "opposed training".

 

[James Buchanan]

How far can you go to get a level playing field?
England has about 1 million players available for selection for their team, and 999,970 others to call on for back up if one of the squad does a "Dan Carter".
I think there are 5000 rugby players in Tonga.

How is this fair?

If I can use an earlier reply:

But the purpose of the rules is to provide as even a playing field as possible. Its one thing to permit something you cannot change, such as the advantage of a home crowd. Its another thing to provide, either explicitly or by absence of regulation a distinct advantage.

While I said home crowd, overall playerbase is a similar issue.

That being said, the purpose of limiting the squad is means that while England might have 1 million players and Tonga 5000, at the world cup they both only have 30.

That's what I am championing here, rather than further exacerbating any numerical weaknesses.

 

[Groucho]

The cynical side of me asks: So, when can we start expecting current "extended squad" players to be participating in "World Cup Tours", which unsurprisingly follow the nation's team, to watch all of their games. Of course, they'll be keeping fit "just in case they are needed" and since they "happen to be in town", the team can use them for "opposed training".

Or they could form 'local teams' in advance in all the venue towns: the Crocodile Dunedins and the Lamington Cake Tins.

 

[Cutter]

If he's out, I'm gutted for him, the ABs and the Wallabies. I'll still be cheering the Wallabies of course, but it won't be the same to beat them in a World Cup semi if he's not playing. A trinations game or HK Bledisloe, I wouldn't be so fussed about, but the semi final of a World Cup I want him there and if we're not good enough, we're not good enough.

 

[cyclopath]

He'll be there, this is all a beat-up. I sense the sure hands of Henry and Hansen giving a red herring for everyone to get worked up about, while they keep New Zealand's Foot elevated on a purple cushion, anointed with fine oils and a nice ice pack every 2 hours, not to mention a few needles of Ropivacaine for Sunday dinner.