Rugby - not set pieces

[Moses]

Commentators at the Saders vs Sharks match in Twickenham

"Dan Carter has been sauntering through SupeRugby. He has exploded into life today, how would you fancy being scrumhalf inside him?" - Stuart Barnes
"Well.... I wouldn't mind. I've had that opportunity as well, which has been superb" - Justin Marshall

 

[Zeno]

Blog visitor I Need a Hero left this comment on the "Burke's Backyard" post:

But…Matt Burke. Mostly, I miss his try savers, I miss his courage, his scathing runs. I miss him so damn much! When I make love to a woman I close my eyes and think of Burke 24 – All Blacks 16. I miss the way he combed his hair. In fact once this is all over I think that there should be a Matt Burke tribute week, a week to glorify the man and the myth!

 

[Lee Grant]

Mattie has set the bar high for Schmoo Mitchell.



Good one Moses - and Mexted wasn't even there!

 

[Lee Grant]

Players

• Steve Mafi, late of Parramatta and Ed Slater, late of Eastern Suburbs, and both of whom have been in the Tahs stable, started in the 2nd row for Premiership champions Leicester Tigers against Bath last weekend. The lads played well as Bath suffered their biggest ever home defeat, though Slater got a yellow card for hands in the ruck. It may have saved a try though.

• Josh Lewsey made a return to rugby for 10 minutes last weekend after retiring in 2009, to help out his old Wasps club. In 2010 he was part of a team that made an attempt on Everest. He made it to a point near to the final summit when his oxygen failed. As he went down he could see about 10 bodies in the death zone which had been there for years. It made him change his mind about having a rest.

• John Beattie [Glasgow], a quality international on his day, gets penalised for holding on 57 metres from his goal line in a home game against Ulster. The score is 19-19 and there is 80 minutes on the clock; so no time for a lineout. Beattie, still on the ground, flicks the ball backwards; so ref McPherson marches them back 10 and Pienaar slots the 47 metre kick for Ulster to win. Bonehead play of the week.

If Ruan Pienaar is unattached he would have no trouble getting a date in Belfast. He hasn't set the world on fire with ball in hand but he's kicked goals after the final hooter three times recently by my count.

• Thomas Waldrom [Leceister] Congratulation to Thomas The Tank Engine for finding an English grandmother. He rang his mother in New Zealand and she confirmed his grandmother was born in England, and that she had the birth certificate to prove it. He was a goodish Super14 player and, though it's hard to judge these things, he has stepped up a level in the English Premiership. He looks every bit as good as plodder Nick Easter and is running over folks and getting over the gain line. He's not a gym junkie but will be a strong candidate for the Pom RWC squad.


Referees

• Dean Richards [Northampton v Wasps] The Saints get a penalty on the Wasps 5 metre line for dangerous play and take the scrum option. After the Wasps scrum threatens to wheel legally the Saints' scrum straightens lead by LHP Tonga'uiha. The Wasps pack gets peeled off like prawn shell. The ball gets lost in the melee and Richards awards a penalty try. No 2nd chances and stuffing around with a penalty as some refs might have done.

Obviously he thought a try would probably have been scored but for the Wasps' binding being lost. It might have been hard to justify that in a court of law. Simon Shaw of Wasps would have been a star witness in the case. He was ropeable.


Quotes

• Robert Beale [Dragons manager] when asked what kind of game it would be before a match against Munster last year: “If he referees what he sees and not listen to the Munster players, I think we may have a good game.” But what did you really mean Bob?


Trivia

• Marc Lièvremont has been head coach of France in 36 games since his first in the 2008 6N. Guess how many different players he has used. The answer: 81.

• The Wallabies front row boasted only two caps in their match against the Poms in Perth last year, but have they had fewer (not counting the early test matches and after world wars, which I haven't checked)? You're right: When they played Italy in Rovigo in 1983 LHP John Coolican had a single cap but THP Mark Harding and hooker Mark McBain were making their debuts. It proved to be Harding's only test match.

 

[Sully]

Thomas Waldron is a pom now. I retract my statement about Born and Bred Kiwis only wanting to be all blacks!

 

[Lee Grant]

Be fair - he's just following the example of Dylan Hartley, Riki Flutey and several others.

 

[Ash]

And there's plenty of others, isn't there? Shontayne Hape, Leslie Vainikolo, Henry Paul, etc.

 

[Bullrush]

And there's plenty of others, isn't there? Shontayne Hape, Leslie Vainikolo, Henry Paul, etc.

I don't think any of these guys played any rugby at any meaningful level in NZ - all league converts.

I reckon most of the guys named so far (apart from Waldrom....and maybe Vaiikolo) would strggle to cement a starting spot in a Super Rugby team in NZ....but they're considered good enough to represent England.

 

[DPK]

Commentators:
- ABC's Steve Robilliard during his report on the Brumbies vs Highlanders game "The Brumbies could've used a friend, but they already sacked him."

 

[Lee Grant]

Avira Premiership

• Northampton v Sale - The Saints spend a lot of time practising mauls. Sometimes they do it topless so that they don't have the benefit of gripping jerseys, which forces them to get their body alignment right.

5 metres from their own goal line and the Saints throwing to a lineout Sale knew they would be tough to stop. Timing it just right they drove the Saints' maul back quite a way with a scrum-like formation, but they didn't realise that the ball was smuggled sideways at the back. Mujati ran forward passing the Sale counter-maul like ships in the night and scored. As commentator Nick Mullins said: “A great big hole opened up, and it needs to be big for Mujati to go through it.”

• Harlequins v Leicester - Ahead 10-0 at oranges Quins got two yellow cards in the 2nd half: one to their replacement THP for going to ground too often and another on a dodgy call to their flanker for hands-in. It was 13 playing 15. Then Tigers LHP Ayerza head- butted Quins LHP Marler (he, of the orange Mohawk haircut) who responded with a overhand right followed by an meritorious uppercut to the gut.

Both got red cards; so it was 12 against 14 for a while before the two Quins guys came back. The Tigers had a lead by this time and were just able to hold on for the win. Good game.

• Harlequins v Gloucester - A week earlier Quins got whacked by Gloucester. There was nothing too remarkable in this game except that 6 of the 8 in the Gloucester pack were wearing head gear. Well, I thought it was unusual.

Humour

• In another thread I mentioned Kepu's comeback match in R12 last year for Randwick v. Sydney Uni. In that game Beale was setting up a Randwick conversion from near the tram track line when referee Steve Walsh told him to take the kick from closer to touch. A wag from the crowd yelled out: “What about his land rights?” The crowd laughed and KB (Kurtley Beale) turned around with a big smile on the dial.

Commentators

• Sometimes we bag commentators but I had nothing but praise for the ABC guys last week during the opening round of the Shute Shield (though some may disagree):

- Robilliard - “If you're supposed to hold after the engagement, and all the engagement does is give us penalties why not defuse the engagement?”
- Papworth: “ … Fold in, hold, push.”
- Robilliard: “You're not allowed to push once you've engaged...”
- Morrison: “Go back and have a look at a few scrums 10 years ago; that's exactly what they did, and they weren't collapsing.”
- Robilliard: “Engagement causes half our free kicks and penalties.”
- Morrison: “... Feed it in straight next, but that's another time.”

- Robilliard (later): "Here's a suggestion to the IRB: if you can't stop the number of penalties and kicks coming from scrums – change the laws.”

I don't think the engagement 10 years ago was quite as benign as Morrison mentioned, but he has the vibe of it right. Also he might have mentioned that by having the scrum steady with a passive engagement, the tunnel would have better shape and referees would enforce a straight scrum feed.

• Well done Andrew Small who Kiwi commentators reckoned scored a try last week for the Brumbies though it was really Andrew Smith.

Referees

• Congratulations to referee Jaco Peyper for making a change to the scrum laws more likely after he prolonged a series of scrum resets to 6 minutes.


Trivia

• We haven't had a Prime Minister who was a Wallaby but Ben Chifley came closest. He was a hard tackling flanker from Bathurst and made the final trials for the Wallabies 1908-09 tour of Britain. Chifley eventually retired after being carried off unconscious after he hit his head on the ground.

 

[James Buchanan]

• Sometimes we bag commentators but I had nothing but praise for the ABC guys last week during the opening round of the Shute Shield (though some may disagree):

- Robilliard - “If you're supposed to hold after the engagement, and all the engagement does is give us penalties why not defuse the engagement?”
- Papworth: “ … Fold in, hold, push.”
- Robilliard: “You're not allowed to push once you've engaged...”
- Morrison: “Go back and have a look at a few scrums 10 years ago; that's exactly what they did, and they weren't collapsing.”
- Robilliard: “Engagement causes half our free kicks and penalties.”
- Morrison: “... Feed it in straight next, but that's another time.”

- Robilliard (later): "Here's a suggestion to the IRB: if you can't stop the number of penalties and kicks coming from scrums – change the laws.”

I don't think the engagement 10 years ago was quite as benign as Morrison mentioned, but he has the vibe of it right. Also he might have mentioned that by having the scrum steady with a passive engagement, the tunnel would have better shape and referees would enforce a straight scrum feed.

There seems to be a lot of noise about this recently, See http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...reall-for-scrum-marathons-20110407-1d697.html

 

[Zeno]

Obituary for 1950s Wallaby Keith Cross: http://www.smh.com.au/national/obit...-wallaby-great-to-success-20110403-1ct55.html

I always marvel at how much the survivors of that between-wars generation packed into their long lives.

 

[Lee Grant]

JB

Thanks for that. I knew that Flatman had commented on the matter recently but never had the quote. Vickery is also not a fan of the power hit - a relatively new thing in rugby. Spectators like the impact of the power it but I suspect that many of them don't like all the collapses. I also suspect that many don't link the two.

What folks don't realise is that the phenomenon of the power hit is a disadvantage to strong scrums. It is so difficult to judge who is at fault for scrum collapses that referees guess a lot. If they have seen a brief hand on the ground they are relieved to have seen it and ping that team whereas the significant thing was something else done by the other mob on the other side.

Because the power hit is so important sides anticipate the call and the dud scrum can guess it right. There were no free kicks or penalties for early engages before because there were no hits. There was power - but it came after the put in on the push and the dominant team was allowed to dominate.

The refs are now forced to manage the engage; they should be managing what happens after the engage.

This is a non-set piece thread? Excuuuuse me.

 

[James Buchanan]

As an ex-front rower, I am inclined to agree with you. There was always a lot more to a scrum contest than winning the hit for me. The focus on hit has detracted from the 'dark arts' of scrummaging if you ask me. I used to always believe that even if I couldn't out power an opponent, I could out think him. I'm not sure if that's the case anymore.

 

[DPK]

Vickery is also not a fan of the power hit

Would this have still happened without the power hit?

 

[Lee Grant]

A perfect example of why the scrum laws need changing and the hit taken out of the game. Vickery was dudded and Bryce Lawrence apologised to him afterwards. As Nick Pearce wrote in The Telegraph

Vickery said that in a chance meeting with Lawrence in Johannesburg following the Lions' consolation win in the third Test, the two men cleared the air and frankly discussed the incident.

"I saw him after the third Test and we actually had a really good chat,” said Vickery. “He told me that he had watched the tape and said he might have got some things wrong. I said, ‘oh well it’s a bit f***ing late now!’”

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Why have I not been following this thread before? This is quality, Lee!

 

[Lee Grant]

Commentators

• Bob Skinstad Lions v Reds in reference to Coopers tats: “Looks like he's been hit on the arm with a wet newspaper”. Good call Bobbie.


Players

• I think I've told this story before but the commentators reminded me of it. Eduard Coetzee LHP for Biarritz against Toulouse last Sunday used to play for Bayonne whose ground is not too many kilometres away from the Biarritz ground. Bayonne is struggle street in the French club pecking order and Biarritz is uptown. The fans hate each other.

Anyway, when Coetzee visted his doctor after news came through that he was moving from Bayonne to Biarritz, and no doubt not switching where he lived, the doc said he couldn't service his family any more. That's right: the doc went for Bayonne.

Trivia

• Manly v Rats 1st half 32nd minute: the camera switches to coach Tim Lane. Anyone else notice the guy having a leak in the bushes behind Tim and “Turtle”? And soon after Siale scores and there is your truly in the crowd? This second item was not so noticeable nor interesting? Correct, but least it gave credence to my wife that I was at the rugby and not available to mow the lawn.

• Toulon During the game v Biarritz earlier in the season, the commentator said that only 4 of the starting Toulon XV were eligible for France. Incidentally: their player budget is €20.8 million, 2nd only to that of Toulouse at €29.5 million. Because he spends so much money, idiosyncratic Toulon owner, Mourad Boudjellal, thought he was perfectly entitled to take the Toulon team on their captain's run before the Heineken Cup Qtr. Final.

• Matt Burke wrote in his autobiography that his best 100 metre time at school was 10.82 secs. He played school rugby at 84 kgs., was 90 kgs at age 23 and about 98 kgs when he finished. Those extra pies slow you down.

Referees

• Craig Joubert Brumbies v Hurricanes My favourite referee says to a scrummie: “Hands on is ball out.” How many times do we see scrum halves squatting over a ball that is totally exposed with hands on and defenders getting pinged for coming around because the ball is deemed still in the ruck?

• Jonathon Kaplan Sharks v Lions Not my favourite referee, but he made a good comment to Sharks captain Terblanche after penalising the Sharkies for grabbing a guy's throat with an arm once too often. He warned him that there should be no more “grapple tackles.” Sounded like Kaplan had been watching a bit of rugby league when he's been over this way.

• Vinnie Munro Lions v Reds gives Horwill a yellow card and as he walks off we say to ourselves: “Silly bugger, why did he do that?” But what did he do? The Lions scrummie Veermark had the ball in his hands prior to passing and Horwill knocked it out of his hands. Illegal? No, unless he knocked the ball forward deliberately. Did he? No, the ball came back towards Horwill or at worst was straight down.

Horwill was in the ruck. Usually these kinds of penalties are for grabbing the scrummie which is deemed as pulling him back into the ruck. This is is illegal, but he didn't even grab his arm: he knocked the ball back in a slapping motion. OK, he had some of his body weight on the Lions 6 and therefore could have been deemed to be off his feet, but I'm guessing that the card would have been given even if he were 100% upright.

I suppose the message to players is: don't farque with the scrummie: he is God.

Actually, some of them think they are.

 

[matty_k]

• Manly v Rats 1st half 32nd minute: the camera switches to coach Tim Lane. Anyone else notice the guy having a leak in the bushes behind Tim and “Turtle”?

Thanks to ABC's iView for this

 

[DPK]

That's hilarious...


...he does look like a turtle!