Rugby League players who could have/could make the switch

[en_force_er]

Given the uproar of criticism that followed the ARU's coup in signing Israel Folau, can you imagine what would happen if they threw money at a loig forward - unless he already had a signficant background in rugby, that is.

Backs are, or should be, easily transferrable, they also have the advantage of being the marquee players that unaligned supporters are interested in watching. (I recall that Lote was thought to draw very well for the Tahs).

Certainly mate. I don't mean, nor did I mention, expensive high-profile forwards.

I just think our squads have room for 3 or 4 (collectively) Jarrad Saffys or Nic Hendersons. Decent, hard working leaguies who don't need massive dollars.

 

[wamberal]

I don't disagree (although might I point out that Saffy actually had a very strong rugby background).

 

[papabear]

League schoolboys might not be switching over because union does not have the resources of 16 clubs to throw money at them, with only 5 professional clubs there is less demand for up and coming players as their is in league.

I think with a union forward, you need a fat bloke to roll around the middle and take up space with other fat blokes. Why waste big money on a league forward when you can play a fat union bloke to do pretty much the same job as what paul gallen would do.

You are better off spending your money in the backs.

Backs in league are trained to break the line and conversely stop the other side from breaking the line. Watching NZ v SA and SA score a try where a simple shift got around the NZ defence (meant to be best in the world) without any players straightening up to take on the line, showing up a lazy AB defence that despite not having to get back ten metres couldnt be fucked committing to a sliding defence, reinforced how garbage backline defence is in union.

The attack then suffers because it doesnt need to be as good because the defence gives up a simple try from a weak backline shift. That said the winger put on a nice chip kick that was a very ballsy skillful touch to finish the try.

In summary, when you can gain so much from league backs, it no surprise union puts its limited resources their and not in the forwards.

 

[wamberal]

Yep, we all remember some stunning one-on-one defense from Timana Tahu when he played rugby.

Do you watch much rugby?

 

[Swat]

That's a much nicer way of putting it wamberal, I was just going to go with this:

 

[terry j]

it's a different kettle of fish having the luxury of three blokes holding down one bloke doing a ground hump so you can re-adjust and get ready for the next round of the same vs..

oh bugger it, why validate an idiotic argument by using logic?

 

[papabear]

it's a different kettle of fish having the luxury of three blokes holding down one bloke doing a ground hump so you can re-adjust and get ready for the next round of the same vs..

oh bugger it, why validate an idiotic argument by using logic?

Are you seriously suggesting you have more time in league to set your defence. Lmao.

And with respect league is not same versus ... they will try and beat you on the inside and outside, and run far more lines across the grain then in union where they try and beat you on the outside 99 percent of the time. Unless of course u have fat man stealing the ball to make ten centimetres holding possession praying for a penalty. In that case he ain't even trying to break through the line.

 

[papabear]

Yep, we all remember some stunning one-on-one defense from Timana Tahu when he played rugby.

Do you watch much rugby?

Didn't watch much if him in league or union.

Wasn't my type of player.

 

[Braveheart81]

Are you seriously suggesting you have more time in league to set your defence. Lmao.

And with respect league is not same versus . they will try and beat you on the inside and outside, and run far more lines across the grain then in union where they try and beat you on the outside 99 percent of the time. Unless of course u have fat man stealing the ball to make ten centimetres holding possession praying for a penalty. In that case he ain't even trying to break through the line.

Can we come over to your house and watch rugby league on your TV?

You must be watching something different to the rest of us.

 

[papabear]

Can we come over to your house and watch rugby league on your TV?

You must be watching something different to the rest of us.

You are welcome anytime

It's just simple math really you have a ptb of about 2-4 seconds in that time u get back your ten, then in the time the attack takes you on u have to move up and make the tackle.

This happens play after play

In union - taking out the time when the fat blokes are just having nuffy runs and the actual athletes are taking each other on.
You have a ruck or maul u only have to get back to the line of the ruck, first the attacking player has to release the ball, usually a few seconds when he says allied fat blokes have arrived, then the ball moves to the back and the defence waits for the9 or 10 to make the call / play, then once the ball is out the defence has to shut down the play like in league but it's a bit closer.
IMO on average that stuff takes longer then the average 2-4 seconds in league.

I will concede that on a very fast ruck or maul it is faster then leagues fastest ones by maybe .5 of a second because u don't have to get up to play the ball. But on average far far slower.

If u don't agree with the above look at the numbers in league each side gets about 20 sets a half for about 190 plays a game.

In union what is it maybe 70 odd plays a game for each side, even counting all fun time that is had whilst the scrum is set there is a whole less times an attacker takes on a defender.

Now that, that is done can we move onto the contest of the ball.

 

[Braveheart81]

They're really quite different sports.

I don't understand why people constantly want to compare them.

 

[papabear]

They're really quite different sports.

I don't understand why people constantly want to compare them.

They have evolved to a stage where they are very different sports.

But if a thread is discussing league or union converts it is inevitable that the skills the sport requires and held by the athletes would be robustly discussed.

 

[terry j]

wow man, it's really funny how two people can watch the exact same event in front of them yet have completely different opinions. I find that fascinating actually.

I find the ground humping game so unbelievably slow. Papabear thinks it is faster. That's what I love about humanity, it's so fascinating.

2-4 seconds for a tackle?? You gotta be kidding. It's at least that with three blokes laying on top before they even think about getting off. Then more often than not, it is at most one pass from dummy half, wash rinse and repeat. Then you kick it away because the 'laws' tell you to.

Anyway, you enjoy it so all power to you, and I mean that sincerely.

 

[Bullrush]

You are welcome anytime

It's just simple math really you have a ptb of about 2-4 seconds in that time u get back your ten, then in the time the attack takes you on u have to move up and make the tackle.

This happens play after play

In union - taking out the time when the fat blokes are just having nuffy runs and the actual athletes are taking each other on.
You have a ruck or maul u only have to get back to the line of the ruck, first the attacking player has to release the ball, usually a few seconds when he says allied fat blokes have arrived, then the ball moves to the back and the defence waits for the9 or 10 to make the call / play, then once the ball is out the defence has to shut down the play like in league but it's a bit closer.
IMO on average that stuff takes longer then the average 2-4 seconds in league.

I will concede that on a very fast ruck or maul it is faster then leagues fastest ones by maybe .5 of a second because u don't have to get up to play the ball. But on average far far slower.

If u don't agree with the above look at the numbers in league each side gets about 20 sets a half for about 190 plays a game.

In union what is it maybe 70 odd plays a game for each side, even counting all fun time that is had whilst the scrum is set there is a whole less times an attacker takes on a defender.

Now that, that is done can we move onto the contest of the ball.

1. Only a couple of guys actually have to get back the 10 during the PTB in league. EVeryone else is usually headedback long before the tackle is completed.

2. The interchange bench in league means that forwards can go hard for 15 min or so and then go get a breather on the side.

3. If by 'fat blokes' you're referring to guys like the ones below..geez, I wish I was fatter!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

wow man, it's really funny how two people can watch the exact same event in front of them yet have completely different opinions. I find that fascinating actually.

I find the ground humping game so unbelievably slow. Papabear thinks it is faster. That's what I love about humanity, it's so fascinating.

2-4 seconds for a tackle?? You gotta be kidding. It's at least that with three blokes laying on top before they even think about getting off. Then more often than not, it is at most one pass from dummy half, wash rinse and repeat. Then you kick it away because the 'laws' tell you to.

Anyway, you enjoy it so all power to you, and I mean that sincerely.

I tend to find that the breakdown or ruck in both games tend to take similar time to be cleared on average. There are exceptions to that rule in Rugby but the difference is that where at the tackle play stops in League, it only introduces a new element in Rugby.

However, when a Rugby game is played at pace, as it often is in Super Rugby. The tackle in Rugby is much quicker. I tend to think the whole speed of play and fitness element is much over hyped in League. As a forward and having played both games in the pack I've always found that I would finish a Rugby game blowing harder than in a League one.

As for the fatties comment. At the elite levels their are very few of these fatties left in the professional environment. The only one to have built a successful professional career in the last decade or so has been Ben Robinson as far as I'm away and even then, he's got a fairly large tank in terms of his ability to maintain his efforts. Most Props at that level in today's game may still weigh the 120kg or there abouts but these boy's a huge blocks of muscle. But hey, let's just by into the old stereotypes.

 

[en_force_er]

George Rose had a stellar game in the league GF and is off to the Storm (who don't often make bad signings). I can't think of any CURRENT Aussie Super rugby players who would be hitting his skinfolds.

Moral of the story, it's not the body shape it's what you do with it.

 

[wamberal]

I like this "fat forwards" business that mungoes go on about.



Are world class shot putters, discus throwers, and hammer throwers fat? Many of these elite athletes have similar body shapes to rugby front rowers. For good reason, power and strength requires big bulky bodies.


Mind you, George Rose does okay for a fat bloke.

 

[Zander]

All you need to know about league is that their props play 20 minute stints.

 

[Braveheart81]

Again, it's a different game.

As rugby league's rules have changed over the years, so has the make up of sides. Of course you're going to tailor your players to get the best out of the circumstances presented.

Interchange rules weren't created so rugby league props only had to play 15-20 minute stints. Rugby league props started playing 15-20 minute stints because the interchange rules allowed it and you get much more value cycling those players around than giving your backs a rest for example.

 

[terry j]

1. Only a couple of guys actually have to get back the 10 during the PTB in league. EVeryone else is usually headedback long before the tackle is completed.

2. The interchange bench in league means that forwards can go hard for 15 min or so and then go get a breather on the side.

I decided against a long winded answer to panda (IIRC) because as I said it's fine that he likes what he likes and the same to me. You however touched upon some of those obvious responses I left out. In addition to your points about the claim that they are fitter because of this back and forth ten metres stuff is that, predictably because there is little thought put into their arguments OTHER than 'find something, anything, to bag union with', is that they always conveniently leave out the fact that the other bloke is running AT them which mathematically means it is not this ten metre back and forth stuff.

Always left out of the equation is, regarding this fitness stuff, the fact that any league player attempting to participate in a scrum would end up with a broken neck or back. It would be granny scrums from the get go.

Ten or so years ago the 'attack' on the game would be 'union kicks too much'. Well at least there are tactical and strategic reasons to do that in union, now it is 'enshrined' by the rules of the game in league and they are left with 'no choice'.

It is much simpler to leave it at 'it is completely fine to like what you like'.