Rugby League players who could have/could make the switch

[papabear]

I tend to find that the breakdown or ruck in both games tend to take similar time to be cleared on average. There are exceptions to that rule in Rugby but the difference is that where at the tackle play stops in League, it only introduces a new element in Rugby.

However, when a Rugby game is played at pace, as it often is in Super Rugby. The tackle in Rugby is much quicker. I tend to think the whole speed of play and fitness element is much over hyped in League. As a forward and having played both games in the pack I've always found that I would finish a Rugby game blowing harder than in a League one.

As for the fatties comment. At the elite levels their are very few of these fatties left in the professional environment. The only one to have built a successful professional career in the last decade or so has been Ben Robinson as far as I'm away and even then, he's got a fairly large tank in terms of his ability to maintain his efforts. Most Props at that level in today's game may still weigh the 120kg or there abouts but these boy's a huge blocks of muscle. But hey, let's just by into the old stereotypes.

At the amateur level rugby appears to be played much faster at least from what I've seen. Even Super Rugby is faster then test level and light years faster then northern rugby. In terms of ball recycle speed.

But given the nature of the thread my reference was in respect of the pro levels.

Fatties is more in reference to the fact that a lot if rugby forwards don't appreciate the need in rugby and all sports to have the ball in attack in space where the defence is weak. So they just keep driving the ball a metre forward and rolling over on top of each other fighting for possession. Looking for a penalty instead of kicking it out to the backs who will try and slice through.

For the record I have never played a game of league in my life, played a few seasons of union as a 5/8 and a lot of touch and a bit of oztag.

On a side note what does the term mungo mean? Besides some sort of league sympathiser?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

At the amateur level rugby appears to be played much faster at least from what I've seen. Even Super Rugby is faster then test level and light years faster then northern rugby. In terms of ball recycle speed.

But given the nature of the thread my reference was in respect of the pro levels.

Fatties is more in reference to the fact that a lot if rugby forwards don't appreciate the need in rugby and all sports to have the ball in attack in space where the defence is weak. So they just keep driving the ball a metre forward and rolling over on top of each other fighting for possession. Looking for a penalty instead of kicking it out to the backs who will try and slice through.

For the record I have never played a game of league in my life, played a few seasons of union as a 5/8 and a lot of touch and a bit of oztag.

On a side note what does the term mungo mean? Besides some sort of league sympathiser?

Don't know what Mungo means.

Mate, Super Rugby is a professional level. Tests can be tighter due to the tension that is often attached to the games.

I'll give you an analogy I was told some years back regarding RL players and their defensive prowess at the top level. A guy who has coached many past and his fair share of current NRL boy's. This is to the best of my recollection. Him - "League players are still excellent tacklers, one on one. However, the way the game has gone they are know terrible defenders in general".

His reasoning. Considering the the game has been refined to the point that is has become such a structured game particularly in terms of defence, if they were great defenders then surely every game would be agonisingly close. Which they aren't. The amount of one on one tackles missed or defensive errors made during an average NRL game is remnarkably high. This was his opinion 5 years ago.

Rugby in contrast, ins't nearly as structured. It requires defences to scramble and constantly shift.

 

[boyo]

"Mungo like candy".

 

[TOCC]

At the amateur level rugby appears to be played much faster at least from what I've seen. Even Super Rugby is faster then test level and light years faster then northern rugby. In terms of ball recycle speed.

But given the nature of the thread my reference was in respect of the pro levels.

Fatties is more in reference to the fact that a lot if rugby forwards don't appreciate the need in rugby and all sports to have the ball in attack in space where the defence is weak. So they just keep driving the ball a metre forward and rolling over on top of each other fighting for possession. Looking for a penalty instead of kicking it out to the backs who will try and slice through.

For the record I have never played a game of league in my life, played a few seasons of union as a 5/8 and a lot of touch and a bit of oztag.

On a side note what does the term mungo mean? Besides some sort of league sympathiser?

seriously? Do you not understand rugby at all?
Your solution is to spread the ball wide and not keep it tight at all?

 

[wamberal]

This chap is either the village idiot (as I implied earlier) or he is a troll.


Either way, he is best ignored, I think. He either does not like, or does not understand, rugby.


For his information, "mungo" is an Australian slang term derived from the word mongrel.

 

[p.Tah]

Guys, I think we should give him a break. According to his profile he is 113 years old........

 

[Crashy]

Didnt the word mungo come from the poor in the depression who had to trawl through garbage bins for food? and hence as payback for league pinching their players for money, the rah rahs referred to anyone involved with league as a mungo?

 

[Crashy]

From urban disctionary - haha

Anyone involved with Rugby League be it fans, players, coaches, administrators, reporters etc. These Mungoes also tend to be incorrigible reprobates and are best avoided.
'Joey Johns is just another neanderthal Mungo'

or

A dumpster driver; A person which digs for trash

or

retarded. someone who is mentally impared.

sorry

 

[papabear]

Don't know what Mungo means.

Mate, Super Rugby is a professional level. Tests can be tighter due to the tension that is often attached to the games.

I'll give you an analogy I was told some years back regarding RL players and their defensive prowess at the top level. A guy who has coached many past and his fair share of current NRL boy's. This is to the best of my recollection. Him - "League players are still excellent tacklers, one on one. However, the way the game has gone they are know terrible defenders in general".

His reasoning. Considering the the game has been refined to the point that is has become such a structured game particularly in terms of defence, if they were great defenders then surely every game would be agonisingly close. Which they aren't. The amount of one on one tackles missed or defensive errors made during an average NRL game is remnarkably high. This was his opinion 5 years ago.

Rugby in contrast, ins't nearly as structured. It requires defences to scramble and constantly shift.

Yeah I know Super Rugby is professional, and it depends who is playing but they still tend to fuck about a bit more often then Shute shield... And less so in tests, I get the higher the level the higher the risk.

But I'm just observing from a speed and entertainment pov.

 

[papabear]

Didnt the word mungo come from the poor in the depression who had to trawl through garbage bins for food? and hence as payback for league pinching their players for money, the rah rahs referred to anyone involved with league as a mungo?

And it's stuck to this day... Impressive...

 

[papabear]

seriously? Do you not understand rugby at all?
Your solution is to spread the ball wide and not keep it tight at all?

No, it is to slice through, wherever the defence is not going to adequately cover whether that's wide or running straight up the guts or a certain angle or whatever.

But the fat bloke who is not trying to break the line but simply getting tackled to get started another ruck or maul and hope for a penalty IMO is against the spirit of league union or any sport.

Keeping it tight doesn't mean you don't get the ball into space it just means you don't drop the thing.

Ie keeping it tight to the lindfield u15s might mean just people running off the back if the ruck but the abs it might mean not throwing a ball when the passing lane is dodgy.

Anyways I don't know why your getting so upset

 

[Sully]

Hi Papa. Welcome. Don't pay attention to the peanut gallery you will get used to them. Some of them don't even barrack for decent teams.

I don't like the mungo nickname so I will not say anything more on the subject.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4

 

[Train Without a Station]

But the fat bloke who is not trying to break the line but simply getting tackled to get started another ruck or maul and hope for a penalty IMO is against the spirit of league union or any sport.

Keeping it tight doesn't mean you don't get the ball into space it just means you don't drop the thing.

Nah mate. The idea is to build forward momentum. Once the defending team is retreating, the is space available wider as they have to move backward to reset. Rather than being set coming forward.

I'm not sure how often I've ever seen this happen, except maybe the dying moments of a big match, and even then it's rare because the attacking team often eventually gives away a penalty at the breakdown, defeating the purpose.

 

[papabear]

Nah mate. The idea is to build forward momentum. Once the defending team is retreating, the is space available wider as they have to move backward to reset. Rather than being set coming forward.

I'm not sure how often I've ever seen this happen, except maybe the dying moments of a big match, and even then it's rare because the attacking team often eventually gives away a penalty at the breakdown, defeating the purpose.

I one hundred percent agree with runs designed to get the defence retreating and give the attack some momentum and the defence opportunity to make mistakes and be isolated.

However, it is how you build that momentum , where perhaps we differ. IMO you don't build it by picking the ball of the back of a ruck and from a standing start running two metres pretty much into the same ruck, imo thats cheap lazy play.

If the said forward wants to be involved he is much better setting his arse behind the play maker to run either a decoy or a shortball inside or outside, no risk play for a decent side and you can actually get some forward momentum going.

Or even easier just get the scrumhalf or some other bloke to hit a big fat bloke running with a bit of momentum, who is running into spaces not faces.

 

[papabear]

Hi Papa. Welcome. Don't pay attention to the peanut gallery you will get used to them. Some of them don't even barrack for decent teams.

I don't like the mungo nickname so I will not say anything more on the subject.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4

thanks mate

 

[Train Without a Station]

Or even easier just get the scrumhalf or some other bloke to hit a big fat bloke running with a bit of momentum, who is running into spaces not faces.

Yeah but this isn't league. There's no marker, so 2 defenders aren't necessarily taken out, then there's 2 additional defenders again as there are 15 player. It's congested, there's no gaps to run into tight, and again, this isn't league so defence is starting at the gain line advancing from there.

Furthermore, if the defence is loading up off the halfback, they will have less numbers around the ruck, meaning that's where the quick metres are. Building a couple of phases there will enable you to recycle wider when defence is not set.

 

[Braveheart81]

But the fat bloke who is not trying to break the line but simply getting tackled to get started another ruck or maul and hope for a penalty IMO is against the spirit of league union or any sport.

I think the hope for a penalty bit is a rare occurrence. Yes, you might see it near the end of the game where three points will win the game but this is by far the exception rather than the norm.

The point you've made about not always trying to break the line relates to possession always being contested in union and is a fundamental difference between union and league.

The league player can try to bust the line every time because getting isolated is not an issue because the other team can't compete for the ball. In rugby you have to work to retain possession so getting isolated or even just tackled in a bad position can often lose your team the ball.

 

[Swat]

What could have devolved rapidly into a shit-slinging argument has turned into a interesting discussion on tactics used in both codes and variations within each code. Well done everyone.

 

[en_force_er]

No, it is to slice through, wherever the defence is not going to adequately cover whether that's wide or running straight up the guts or a certain angle or whatever.

But the fat bloke who is not trying to break the line but simply getting tackled to get started another ruck or maul and hope for a penalty IMO is against the spirit of league union or any sport.

I see why you think that mate, honestly I do, but it's a very armchair coach kind of opinion.

As a fatty and coach (of no team of particular note), the fattys keep it tight for a few reasons and winning a penalty is usually a happy coincidence rather than the intention (though I have seen some teams play for the penalty and it's rarely ended well).

Some reasons the ball is kept tight in rugby are:

That there's nothing on and the team needs to restructure. You can't have the ball sit in a ruck, specially with the new 5 second rule, and you may as well get some cheeky metres whilst you set up some runners, be they off the 9 or 10. Alternatively, maybe your 9 just took the ball into the contact and there's nobody there to feed it (though I guess plenty of blokes have a decent base pass nowadays)

To suck numbers in. Sure, the backs and looseys can run their intelligent lines but if it's a 3 on 5 they may as well be running against a brick wall. A couple of nice pick and drives in quick succession gets a lot of bodies on the ground or out of position and makes some nice space which gives you a chance to play what's in front of you.

Because if your team is good as it it can be a great way to gain low risk metres and get the opposition on the back foot. I once played with a team where the backs were honestly awful and we'd pick and drive all day. It wasn't anyone's preference but it was the best option to gain low risk metres before we had our crack scoring (which they usually messed up quite frankly).

I hope this has shed some light on the subject for you, but there's much more to the "playing it tight" theory then this. Seeing as you admit you're a man of little rugby experience I suggest you use this forum to learn a bit about the game so you don't become one of those old Rah-rahs who think they know it all. I'm sure you know the type, rugby is chock full of them.

Carry on and welcome to the forum.

 

[wamberal]

The point is also worth making that rucks, mauls, scrums, and lineouts are actually part of the game. They might not appeal as much to the casual viewer, but to a rugby supporter the drama of the early reset defensive scrums in Rosario, a yellow card, and then Wallaby redemption was as fascinating as any try.


Liam Gill's steal in the final lineout in the Second Lions Test ditto.