It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
We need SBW in his ear.
Rugby League players who could have/could make the switch
- Thread starter EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7
- Start date
Eyes and Ears
Bob Davidson (42)
Do we really want that? If that was the case, he would end up at the Chiefs.
I disagree. I think he was just another decent backrower when he played rugby.
I don't even think he was that good an NRL player until this season. He was a decent first grader sure, but he certainly wasn't dominant.
It's being reported that his weight has increased this season from 103kg last year to 121kg this year (which is an incredible gain in one year) and he is certainly a dominant physical player this year.
Had he been a few years younger I think he would have probably got an EPS contract rather than only an Academy offer and might have stayed given that we now have five teams.
At the time he left there were lots of young players who were better than him. Certainly Waerea-Hargreaves was nowhere near good enough that he deserved money to be thrown at him to keep him in the game in the hope that in four or five years he'd turn into a dominant player.
I think part of the problem is that tight five players generally mature later and it is much tougher 'picking winners' amongst 17 and 18 year old tight forwards.
At an age where players are still growing and some have matured faster than others, working out who are going to be the best players in the long run is really difficult.
At an age where players are still growing and some have matured faster than others, working out who are going to be the best players in the long run is really difficult.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I read somewhere on this great forum that Dave Taylor was shopped around to the Reds a few years back. At the time he was a very average, fringe NRL starter. At the time it was posted he was in fine form, which he no longer is.
It's a flip of a coin sometimes, I don't think we can blame the system for letting JWH go. He is just a thug of a player and there's very few of those players in union that are genuine game breakers (though there's a few).
The player he'd be most similar to would be Higgers, but more thug less nous. Higgers actually is really improving in the rugby smarts area, his transition between loose and tight is really coming on (but that's a conversation for a different part of the forum).
It's a flip of a coin sometimes, I don't think we can blame the system for letting JWH go. He is just a thug of a player and there's very few of those players in union that are genuine game breakers (though there's a few).
The player he'd be most similar to would be Higgers, but more thug less nous. Higgers actually is really improving in the rugby smarts area, his transition between loose and tight is really coming on (but that's a conversation for a different part of the forum).
The Rock
Ward Prentice (10)
I agree with Swat, the Union System is Sh** and have No Idea. The NRL are Laughing, they go and poach talented mainly Backs in the Union as the forwards are mostly too slow for NRL and look after them and the Union don't care ! I know this Personally. Speed is everything and its something you are born with. JWH'S and Fifita is another Big Forward from Cronulla he is known for his tackle-breaks, strong fend and his step,
Height 194 cm (6 ft 4 in)
Weight 114 kg (17 st 13 lb)
both these forwards have speed and power, a Big Plus for any code.
They are different games particularly for tight five rugby players. Being a 200cm plus lock is bread and butter for a union player and hard to find a workable position in the NRL.
A rugby union prop has a very different skill set than a league one. The most crucial attribute of a rugby union prop is scrummaging which is a completely useless skill in rugby league.
Fifita and Waerea-Hargreaves would be great in union now (at least in the loose ball running and tackling elements of the game), but they'd both be playing either 6 or 8.
Again, neither of these players really started to blossom until the last year or two (at about age 22 or 23). Neither of them were stars when they were 18-20 which is the point I was making that it is hard to pick winners when we're talking about teenagers.
Who are the 17 or 18 year olds now who weigh 80kg and aren't dominant in their age group that are going to be stars in the future?
If you can answer that question you could get a job as a recruiter because you'd be better than all the people who are currently doing it.
It is reinventing history to suggest that people should have known that these 24 year old stars were destined to be a star when they were 18.
A rugby union prop has a very different skill set than a league one. The most crucial attribute of a rugby union prop is scrummaging which is a completely useless skill in rugby league.
Fifita and Waerea-Hargreaves would be great in union now (at least in the loose ball running and tackling elements of the game), but they'd both be playing either 6 or 8.
Again, neither of these players really started to blossom until the last year or two (at about age 22 or 23). Neither of them were stars when they were 18-20 which is the point I was making that it is hard to pick winners when we're talking about teenagers.
Who are the 17 or 18 year olds now who weigh 80kg and aren't dominant in their age group that are going to be stars in the future?
If you can answer that question you could get a job as a recruiter because you'd be better than all the people who are currently doing it.
It is reinventing history to suggest that people should have known that these 24 year old stars were destined to be a star when they were 18.
JSRF10
Dick Tooth (41)
Should this stat not be a complete red flag given the "off field issues" facing the NRL this year? If any team in our code was going to take a chance on him he'd need to be thoroughly drug tested.
I would say so.
One of the comments from JWH suggests it isn't all muscle bulk though. The article I read suggested that he spent a lot of time trimming fat in the previous season and whilst he looked great in the mirror he was too light for how he wanted to play.
The Rock
Ward Prentice (10)
I know quite a lot of boys plying Holden Cup for NRL ( U 20'S ) even the halves are weighing that. The NRL have Specific Programed Weights / Gym Programs, Sprinting and Field Sessions, for all boys in Harold Matts upwards, I can tell you about one boy who I know well, is the best mate of my boy. He is not the only kid that Union have stuffed up or Not Interested In. This boy who is at St Augustine College who is Contracted to Manly Sea Eagles playing in the 20s, he was snubbed in his younger years playing weekend union for Reps and was a standout then, big, fast, strong, everyone could see there was some Political Crap going on, even my son couldn't believe it. Manly NRL raced in and saw his potential, he then went right through in their Development, Harold Matts, S G Ball and now is playing up his age group in Holden Cup in the starting side all this this season and has just now turned 18. He made NSW twice for Schools Rugby Union, including this year But was Snubbed for Australian Schoolboys in Union out of 46 Players for either teams ! ( He should have been the 1st Winger picked for the top team ) But he can make the Australian Schoolboys Rugby League Starting Side of only 17 players ! He was awarded recently the Best player for NSW CIS Team at the National Championships in Cairns. He was awarded the School Sportsman Champion 2012, 2013, played 1st XV for his school and a try machine, plays on the Wing or anywhere in the backline and scored a try yesterday in the first test against NZ in NZ. This boy who was not good enough to make the Union Side but will be training with Manly Sea Eagles 1st grade in November and definitely will be a future 1st grader for Manly or any other NRL Club. He has other NRL Clubs chasing him as well. He has a Top Leading Manager looking after him who has Jonathan Thurston on his books etc. He is the fastest in the 20s side is over 6ft and weighs 97 kilos and is Tough and Mean with the ball. Rugby Union Wake Up !
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
Agree Swat.
For Australian Rugby at the moment;
1 Great Tight forward = 3 Good Outside backs.
Why not pay them accordingly?
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
JWH could play as a TH Lock in a heartbeat, in the Brad Thorn mould.
Recruitment is about judgement and vision.
Ben Kennedy, Rocky Elsom and JWH all represented at Australian Schoolboy level and presented as aggressive, competitive big guys with skills.
I'll say it again - big, aggressive competitive guys with skills.
They also exhibited football nous and a fire and competitiveness that we so desperately lack today in the Wallaby culture.
They hurt people with and without the ball - every team needs players that do this.
How many of these come through the system?
Who is the last one we got right and developed them through the system?
Rugby League saw these ingredients and plucked them from under our noses. Ben Kennedy could have been the best rugby player at test level of all of them.
Anyone recruiter with half a brain can envision building up a raw boned recruit into a dominant athlete. After physical attributes (which can often be developed) they then look for "attitude" and "desire"(something that often cannot be developed).
I watch a lot of rugby and I can't think of any schoolboy or U20 forward from recent years I'd mention in the same breath as the 3 above BUT I guarantee our Super Rugby clubs will still sign some of them.
We've been bitched at U 20 level in the forwards for too long now for more of the same to continue.
Apply some value to the tight 5 and clever, aggressive, tough and uncompromising forwards and invest in them.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Funny how different it is between the codes.
Wayne Bennet has previously said that there are no front rowers worth more than $300K per year.....LOL
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Tell that to Steven Price and Reuben Wiki.....
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Watching the Nth Harbour/Otago game and the commentators have just mentioned thant JWH is evidently in talks with the Tahs for next season. Interesting if true.
T
TOCC
Guest
He only re-signed at he roostesr last year for 3 more years... Doubt they would let SBW and JWH both leave without putting up a fight.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
I thought he was still committed to the Roosters for a while. Strange to have signed a 3 year deal and then have rumours about him talking to the Tahs.
