Rugby Championship 2012: Our forwards!

[Scotty]

I'm not sure I'd call our scrums excellent in any of the games. Ok, but not excellent.

Welsh got the upper hand (just) in the first two, and dominanted the third.

 

[Lindommer]

Do you honesty believe that based on the s15 season we should have been seeing 9 tahs in the starting lineup (10 if you want Dennis as well).

Robinson, TPN, Kepu, Timani, Palu, Barnes, Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), and Dennis on the bench. That makes 8, plus one reserve. Don't they teach you buggers to count proper in Queensland? Ah, I get it, you've got a different numbering system. Silly me. Rant over.

TBH gel, I would've had someone else in the engine-room with Sharpie, Douglas or Pyle for starters.

 

[Scotty]

Sorry, 8 it is. Well that sounds a lot better.

But you are purposefully misdirecting the conversation. I assume because either:

a) You can't bring yourself to lie in support of the selection of a number of Tahs
b) You can lie but realise you would be called out on it!

 

[tigerland12]

Easy, if you're not from Queensland. Dennis doesn't seagull, simple. Fucking spare me: every Reds supporter here has bagged the Tahs players in gold and supported a red alternative. I don't give a flying fuck which state they come from, as long as they're the best players to run out for Australia.

If any Reds tragics want to take me on I'm quite happy to go back and trawl through many posts and count 'em. Get over it. The Tahs have as many good players as any other team, what's holding them back are the coaches, not the cattle. And the Tahs pigs have been as good as any other pack this year, that's why they've been picked!

Pigs/cattle, forgive my mixed metaphors.

Get off your high-horse mate. Higginbotham is the best 6 in the country by a mile, and that's not QLD bias, that's fact. Or if you don't believe me, how games did Higgers start this series, and how many did Dennis?

 

[Joe Blow]

The tight 5 is still not quite settled. Timani went OK but there are a couple of other 2nd rowers who need a run at test level to see how they go.
I would be inclined to start tests with Palmer at TH and Robinson at LH and Moore between them. Kepu and TPN on the bench.
I would not be disappointed to see TPN start either as he had a good series, but if we replace Kepu with Palmer then the same reasoning applies to the existing combination between Moore and DP.
You would think that Timani could shove any scrum around on his own, but that does not appear to be the case. He needs some work on his set piece and he may just turn out to be really special.

 

[qwerty51]

Something needs to be done about Sharpe's scrummaging work, it was woeful last game.

 

[Lindommer]

Something needs to be done about Sharpe's scrummaging work, it was woeful last game.

I had an obscured view at the ground and couldn't see which side Sharpe and Timani were packing down on, but I do recall Fat Cat turning around some years ago and giving Sharpe a gobful for not pushing. To my eye the effort from those behind the front row contributed significantly to the scrum's woes on Saturday. And the shenanigans from the Welsh THP.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sorry, 8 it is. Well that sounds a lot better.

But you are purposefully misdirecting the conversation. I assume because either:

a) You can't bring yourself to lie in support of the selection of a number of Tahs
b) You can lie but realise you would be called out on it!

It is clear the Tahs have massively underperformed this season with a good team, but the flipside of that is that there don't seem to be a huge number of players vying to take those spots in the Wallabies right now.

Many would argue that Moore should be starting, but the Tahs front row would be in almost everyone's 22. Alexander is generally the prop most people are calling to be dropped.

Timani is a controversial selection. No one disagrees with that. One of the contenders for a spot is also a Waratah in Douglas. Timani had a pretty solid game and his ability to offload is something that not many of our forwards offer. From Baa Baa's video analysis, Timani's accuracy at the breakdown was pretty good. If Horwill wasn't injured, there is no way Timani would be playing.

Dennis would be on most people's bench.

Palu is playing as well as he ever has and has had three strong games. The backrow combination with Higgers and Pocock is playing out well.

Barnes has played very well against Wales and is there because numerous other contenders for the 10 spot are injured.

Horne is a somewhat controversial selection, but it is hard to argue that Fainga'a was robbed to not be selected and despite having a really strong season, no one is seriously arguing that Andrew Smith should be 13 for the Wallabies.

Given the current injuries, almost everyone would have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) somewhere in their starting XV.

Whilst the Tahs representation in the Wallabies currently contradicts the team's performance this season, I think it is fair to say that the Tahs have seriously underperformed with a strong team and a lot of the other potential Wallabies are injured.

Picking on form is only part of the equation. Test match experience and proven performances for the Wallabies also come into it.

 

[qwerty51]

Timani was like Vickerman is his clean-outs, that's a very important attribute that gets overlooked when judging locks. It's something Sharpe doesn't offer at all so when playing Sharpe (and we should because of his lineout ability) you need to pair him with someone who hits the breakdown hard (and scrummages well) Simmons doesn't offer this.

 

[Scotty]

Good post BH. There are a few 50/50 contenders there, and they all seemed to go the Tahs way (mostly due to scheduling and potential rather than form).

I would like to see a Dennis, Higginbotham, Pocock backrow against the ABs.

 

[vidiot]

Simmons is Sharpe's backup in terms of roles, and Timani is as close as we've seen to Horwill's. The problem is that neither are yet as effective as the original. But that's a bit of an ask.

 

[fatprop]

Do you honesty believe that based on the s15 season we should have been seeing 9 tahs in the starting lineup (10 if you want Dennis as well). Does any tahs supporter?

And I know the response 'no, but they did well, didn't they?'. Yes we won, but who knows if we could have played better if some more form players were tried? (and I would include Dennis swapping with Palu in this.)

The Tahs forwards have been very effective in a dysfunctional side for most of the season with their front row being the most consistent of all the Aus units - whether Nau should have started or be the reserve - he is still in the squad and question becomes whether he plays 30 or 50 minutes

The only highly debatable selection of the pigs would be Timani; Dennis (best 4/5/6 option we have as the bench option) and Palu (best 8 we have) clearly deserve their spots in the squad.

The backs? Well Barnes was the last man standing. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a certainty, he just fills so many holes. Horne is in the debatable section.

So Timani and Horne are the only real arguable selections

The other lock options are untried and the best (probably Pyle) will get tour in November as per the normal Wobs development approach.

Horne? I don't see any unit markedly better at the moment while we have no wingers

 

[barbarian]

Simmons is Sharpe's backup in terms of roles, and Timani is as close as we've seen to Horwill's. The problem is that neither are yet as effective as the original. But that's a bit of an ask.

This.

Timani is a rock shifter, much like Vickerman and Horwill. Does the grunt work and does it pretty well.

Kane Douglas is similar in style but frankly I think Timani is a better player, and has a ball-carrying aspect to his game that Douglas doesn't have.

Caderyn Neville is also in that boat but is still a year away from the Wallabies IMO. He has only played a handful of Super games.

I see Pyle more in Sharpe's style than Horwill's. But I still would have liked to have seen him have a run. But judging by his early departure from the squad he seems to be low on the pecking order.
.

 

[Scotty]

I've seen Kane Douglas put in plenty of good runs, and he has more form that Timani?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

My only complaint with Timani and reiterating what I've said before about him is that I'd like to see him really impose himself physically. He's a bloody huge bloke and looks to be very strong, I'd just like to see him utilise it more, as he has the potential to be very damaging in attack and defence. Barbs video I think backs up his argument that Timani was solid. If we see some gradual improvement and especially in that rock shifting area then I'll be pretty content.

 

[barbarian]

I've seen Kane Douglas put in plenty of good runs, and he has more form that Timani?

He rumbles forward OK, but I have never seen him put anyone through a hole like Timani did with Beale.

As for form, both about the same I reckon. Both were playing pretty well by the end of the first half of the season.

 

[Slim 293]

I still would've selected Sam Carter over Timani, Douglas and Neville on form.......

 

[barbarian]

Yes Slim but that largely goes without saying.

 

[Slim 293]

He and Pyle have been the form locks this year and It's a shame they've both been overlooked.......

 

[Braveheart81]

He and Pyle have been the form locks this year and It's a shame they've both been overlooked...

Robbie Deans and David Nucifora probably got caught by one of those speed camera vans they have in the ACT when they were heading down to watch a Brumbies game.

 

[Scotty]

Simmons is Sharpe's backup in terms of roles, and Timani is as close as we've seen to Horwill's. The problem is that neither are yet as effective as the original. But that's a bit of an ask.

Only in terms of the lineout. Around the ground I think Simmons and Sharpe perform very different roles.