Rugby Championship 2012: Our Backline

[Antony]

You will rarely ever see SBW, Dagg or Smith be the first receiver and run a back-line move though.

I'll stand by the statement that if you're 10 is a good enough player, you don't really worry too much about having another option to do what he's supposed to.

I can remember a few instances this year of SBW stepping in at first receiver then passing it on to Carter, who then runs the play from second five-eighth. It happens when NZ has an overlap or the openside is big and generally under-populated, and Carter stands quite deep.

I agree that you don't need someone there to sporadically replace the five-eighth, but it's good to have someone to step in and be threatening with all three kick/run/pass options, who can then 90% of the time still just pass it on to the main guy and let him play with more width.

 

[TSR]

Honestly, if you're a pro rugby player how hard can it be to catch a ball and pass it to the next guy?!?

Unfortunately, for the Wallaby backs this does seem to be quite an issue

 

[Torn Hammy]

I think people are being a hard on Horne.

I felt the Welsh tactic of rush defence was bordering on perpetual offside play. If the ref doesn't stop it, which he didn't, then the person who cops a beating is the outside centre. The defence is in his face as he receives the ball and all his options are taken out. He usually dies with the ball or tries to push the play and often makes a mistake.

The ABs did this to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) last year when he played at 13 and he hasn't worn that jumper since.

 

[Brumbieman]

But then pretend Julia Gillard was assasinated that day. By Robbie Deans. Then we wouldn't be talking about Rob Horne at all.

Unless it was discovered he was an accomplice in the murder of Gillard. In which case he'd probably come into it, with certain posters thinking Fainga'a would have made a better accomplice.

But I think we can all agree that Horne should certainly serve some jail time for his role in the hypothetical murder of a sitting Prime Minister.
.

Sigh....


This hypothetical is not a 'Horne had a clear run to the line, didn't take contact and was in absolutely no way millimetres away from bombing another certain try' hypothetical.

If it was a simple case of catch-run-score then I wouldn't be making the point.


It is a totally different scenario. Horne was agonisingly close to dropping that ball cold over the line. I'm simply putting this to the defenders of his atrocious 'I dont have the skills or team-mentality to straighten up and pass to my winger" 30m sideways dash and near botched try:

Would you still be backing his inclusion in any Wallaby squads/teams this year if that ball hadn't managed to stick to his thigh and forearm?

 

[Viking]

Horne would have made it to the line easy if he hadn't tripped... yes he somehow tripped on nothing.

 

[Athilnaur]

Unlike many here I don't want to see a playmaker 12 and I don't want McCabe at 13. Comparing a player like McCabe to Conrad Smith is a very long bow. Smith runs superb lines and has immaculate timing. He is a polished and gifted 13 ideally suited outside a crashballer 12.

McCabe is a fast and lionhearted crashballer in his second season of learning good lines to run at 12 and only just starting to shine. The key to McCabe is that he is dominant. Whether tackling, clearing out, or running he makes headway. I love this about him, he gives us steel in midfield. He also learns fast.

For me JOC (James O'Connor) is a more logical 13. He has a superb read of the game, runs good lines, passes well, and is our best tackler in the open. I think he would struggle in the 12 channel but match and exceed AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the 13. Is he too small for 13? Maybe, but I doubt it, not when a mid sized Conrad is so class defining and JOC (James O'Connor) is so strong with ball in hand.

With a full lineup someone is going to give, it can't be JOC (James O'Connor). Who then - Barnes, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Horne?

In this scenario I see Horne and one of Cooper or Barnes on the bench. I think Deans will too, but no JOC (James O'Connor) 13. Maybe I see things differently because I grew up in NZ and for me Bunce was the ultimate centre, not Horan even though Horan is probably one of the best centres to have played the game and Bunce was an outside centre.




Ath.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Horne would have made it to the line easy if he hadn't tripped. yes he somehow tripped on nothing.

I'm pretending Brumbieman tripped him!

 

[Paradox]

It was like a virtual ankle tap

 

[Groucho]

Unlike many here I don't want to see a playmaker 12 and I don't want McCabe at 13. Comparing a player like McCabe to Conrad Smith is a very long bow. Smith runs superb lines and has immaculate timing. He is a polished and gifted 13 ideally suited outside a crashballer 12.

That's true Athilnaur, but remember how long it took Smith to master those skills. For many years he was considered the complete journeyman.

If you had said five years ago that Conrad Smith would be counted amongst the great outside centers, you would have been laughed down by everyone except every Kiwi supporter in the room.

It's a sad comparison between New Zealand fans and ours, that while they consider each new All Black to have unlimited potential, we consider ours to be un-trainably sh*t.

Maybe their players think the same way, and maybe that's why they're good.

Let's hope that we the fans are wrong, in this and half a dozen other current cases.

 

[Athilnaur]

I agree, but to be fair I think new ABs tend to be much more finished products, Deans has been forced many times to look deeper.

Don't mistake me, I'm a huge believer in McCabe, have been since I saw his attitude v Samoa, but to put him at 13 when he is only just starting to get good lines at 12 would be very rash in my view. That and I continue to believe our inside centre should be someone capable of stopping the rampaging Nonus, Broussouws and B DuPlessis of rugby dead in their tracks.


New topic, well kinda;

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-mccabe-take-centre-stage-20120626-210kk.html

Ath.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm a huge fan of McCabe's intangibles. He is a real goer and obscenely courageous at times. A coaches dream I'm absolutely sure.

He's in my preferred Wallaby backline, just not at 12. If he is to play at inside centre, then we need someone who can pass at outside. What we have now does not do justice to the outrageous attacking firepower we have at our disposal out wide.

 

[Slim 293]

IN JUST over a year, Pat McCabe has experienced the most extraordinary of rises - from a Test blow-in to someone considered a future Wallabies captain.

So highly regarded is McCabe within the Wallabies hierarchy that the Brumbies centre has been included this season in the Test team's five-man leadership group, alongside James Horwill, David Pocock, Will Genia and James O'Connor.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/deans-delighted-to-let-mccabe-take-centre-stage-20120626-210kk.html#ixzz1yuXGFbbz

I'm not surprised about McCabe being included in the leadership group.......

The kid who didn't show up to the RWC team photo shoot however.......

 

[DPK]

Sorry mate, Horne has been great in attack and defense this season for the Tahs. Breaks lots of tackles, the line and never misses a tackle

Please justify his selection before resorting to name calling and quote me some stats to back your thoughts up. You'll struggle.

Nah I'll be OK I think. I wasn't justifying his selection, I was just identifying your gross exaggeration.

 

[Joe Blow]

With all available players fit and in form there is still not an automatic selection at 13, which appears to be the problem position. So there is some merit to converting McCabe to an outside centre to allow Cooper and Barnes to play inside him.
There is also merit in converting JOC (James O'Connor) to 13 as he would at least do as good a job as Horne there and it may actually end up being his best position. In this case then McCabe stays at 12, Mitchell or Tomane go onto the wing and Cooper and Barnes duke it out for starting at 10 or being on the bench.
Alternatively AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Horne can remain at 13.

It's a good problem for Deans to have. The backline we played against Wales was a little pedestrian in attack and we will need more fire power to overhaul the ABs and maybe the Boks, so Deans is going to have to tinker.

 

[Richo]

With all available players fit and in form there is still not an automatic selection at 13, which appears to be the problem position. So there is some merit to converting McCabe to an outside centre to allow Cooper and Barnes to play inside him.
There is also merit in converting JOC (James O'Connor) to 13 as he would at least do as good a job as Horne there and it may actually end up being his best position. In this case then McCabe stays at 12, Mitchell or Tomane go onto the wing and Cooper and Barnes duke it out for starting at 10 or being on the bench.
Alternatively AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Horne can remain at 13.

I think this is one of the better arguments for JOC (James O'Connor) at 13. While there is competition at every position in the back line except 9 and 15 (and only because those two are truly world class), the competition at 13 is essentially about whose flaws you want to live with, those of Horne or Fainga'a. Australia desperately needs a long term solution at 13 -- think of the stability Smith has given the ABs -- and finding out if JOC (James O'Connor), who doesn't have a clear natural position yet, is it would be worthwhile.

 

[Athilnaur]

For sure JB, but Deans knows that more firepower is coming with Beale at fb, JOC (James O'Connor) to wing and one of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) horne to bench. Minimal change and some good firepower.

In that lineup I guess he's hoping diggers and JOC (James O'Connor) inject themselves a lot; reasonable but limits our width some.

 

[Groucho]

I agree, but to be fair I think new ABs tend to be much more finished products, Deans has been forced many times to look deeper.

Don't mistake me, I'm a huge believer in McCabe, have been since I saw his attitude v Samoa, but to put him at 13 when he is only just starting to get good lines at 12 would be very rash in my view. That and I continue to believe our inside centre should be someone capable of stopping the rampaging Nonus, Broussouws and B DuPlessis of rugby dead in their tracks.


New topic, well kinda;

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-mccabe-take-centre-stage-20120626-210kk.html

Ath.

Athilnaur I reckon one thing we must all recognise is that McCabe is improving quickly. He's got a lot of respect in the ranks. And he's as tough as teak.

 

[Sully]

I'd like to see Barnes have a run at 13. There I said it out loud.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I know it's Growden but FFS - this makes me want to vomit.

And through time, McCabe is developing a strong midfield Test combination with Waratahs outside-centre Rob Horne.​

Deans is aware of the importance of a consistent, confident centre pairing, knowing that a time when the Wallabies were at their most successful was when Tim Horan and Jason Little played alongside each other week in, week out.​

​

Read more:​

​

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/deans-delighted-to-let-mccabe-take-centre-stage-20120626-210kk.html#ixzz1yw5PtCMs​

 

[Lindommer]

The elephant in the room is Cooper and his tackling. No one, including me, can fault his attack and his long passes which gives us width and time, but his defence MUST be sorted out. Swapping him to fullback and Beale to wing in defence simply isn't on. Barnes next to him is somewhat of a bandaid solution, is it possible to run a defensive screen from the backrow to leave Cooper at 10 in defence? If Kurtley can sort out his tackling why can't Quade?

I dunno. Who'd be a selector?