Rugby Championship 2012: Our Backline

[Joe Mac]

Didn't A.Fainga'a start out his Super rugby career as a 12 and play there initially at Qld as well?
It would be pretty simple for McCabe to move out one. He is tough as nails and his attacking game is on the improve.
If I was Deans I would be asking JW to give him a run at 13 if possible in the next few weeks.

I think the problem is their distribution skills so having both them means there is no point in having wingers in the team. Maybe Barnes at 12 McCabe at 13 though?

 

[Scotty]

Definitely. Barnes or Taps could easily fill the 12 spot alongside McCabe. Both reasonable distributors and good defenders.

13 doesn't have to be a great defender, neither Herbert or Mortlock were. McCabe (when he wants to) has good enough passing skills to match those two.

I think he is the sort of guy that is a must have in a team. As close as we have to a Conrad Smith - no nonsense, does the little things well and tries his guts out every single second. He also seems a pretty nice guy with very little ego.

 

[Antony]

13 doesn't have to be a great defender, neither Herbert or Mortlock were. McCabe (when he wants to) has good enough passing skills to match those two.

With respect mate, got to disagree. 13 doesn't have to be a dominant front-on tackler, but definitely has to be a great defender. The defensive decisions you make at centre are harder than anywhere else on the field.

Maybe McCabe could make the transition easily, but being good at stopping loose-forwards at 12 doesn't necessarily mean you're good at stopping backs at 13.

 

[Sully]

Let me start by stating that I think McCabe is our best centre right now. Okay now that's out of the way comparing any Australian centre to Conrad Smith right now is ridiculous. The man is in career best form and so much better than our guys as to be incomparable.


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[TOCC]

Maybe if he plays 12 and it pushes McCabe out to 13.

But realistically, Tapuai won't even get selected in the squad.

Tapuai is expected back next week, if he puts in a couple of performances even close to his 'pre-injury' form, he will definetly be in the squad..

 

[Scotty]

With respect mate, got to disagree. 13 doesn't have to be a dominant front-on tackler, but definitely has to be a great defender. The defensive decisions you make at centre are harder than anywhere else on the field.

Maybe McCabe could make the transition easily, but being good at stopping loose-forwards at 12 doesn't necessarily mean you're good at stopping backs at 13.

Whoops. That was meant to be 'distributer' not 'defender'. '13 doesn't have to be a great distributer'

Makes a little more sense now.

 

[cyclopath]

Tapuai is expected back next week, if he puts in a couple of performances even close to his 'pre-injury' form, he will definetly be in the squad..

Has Tapuai played any footy since the injury (club?), or is he going to come straight back into the Reds?
He is the best option, in my opinion, as a long term 13 option. I think he is the most skillful of the possibles.
Or even him at 12 with McCabe at 13 long term.
Whether Horne should have been selected or not, it would be odd to drop a guy who scored twice in 3 games and defended very well.
But we need better distribution in there somewhere, and I don't see it from any mentioned thus far in this thread at the moment. But McCabe is probably the better of the 3 marginally.

 

[Scotty]

Tapuai is expected back next week, if he puts in a couple of performances even close to his 'pre-injury' form, he will definetly be in the squad..

You and I might select him. Robbie is another matter though.

 

[Scotty]

Has Tapuai played any footy since the injury (club?), or is he going to come straight back into the Reds?
He is the best option, in my opinion, as a long term 13 option. I think he is the most skillful of the possibles.
Or even him at 12 with McCabe at 13 long term.
Whether Horne should have been selected or not, it would be odd to drop a guy who scored twice in 3 games and defended very well.
But we need better distribution in there somewhere, and I don't see it from any mentioned thus far in this thread at the moment. But McCabe is probably the better of the 3 marginally.

Many have mentioned Barnes at 12. He fits the bill. Taps is an option, but I doubt we will see him for those first two RC games, only after that if we are travelling badly.

I don't think Horne scoring two tries comes into the equation - he was just at the end of a break - it could have been anyone! He has defended well, but his rugby brain seems to have left him a bit in attack, and he has turned into more the athlete type that the rugby brain type.

 

[Braveheart81]

and he has turned into more the athlete type that the rugby brain type.

I blame that on him having a really small head.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Many have mentioned Barnes at 12. He fits the bill. Taps is an option, but I doubt we will see him for those first two RC games, only after that if we are travelling badly.

I don't think Horne scoring two tries comes into the equation - he was just at the end of a break - it could have been anyone! He has defended well, but his rugby brain seems to have left him a bit in attack, and he has turned into more the athlete type that the rugby brain type.

At the moment it's Barnes and McCabe in the centres for mine. JOC (James O'Connor) will come into calculations, but I would prefer him outside of Barnes (playing at 10) if we were to go with him in the midfield.

 

[Ash]

Hope Taps isn't rushed back after a broken collar bone. He should play a couple games of club football first too.

Seeing as the Reds may not make the final, I know that this would probably mean he won't be seen at SupeRugby level year, but I am happy with that if it means he isn't rushed back and either just re-injures himself, or struggles because he is well short of a gallop.

 

[Ash]

At the moment it's Barnes and McCabe in the centres for mine. JOC (James O'Connor) will come into calculations, but I would prefer him outside of Barnes (playing at 10) if we were to go with him in the midfield.

Yup, my preferred combinations are similar:

10. Cooper
12. Barnes
13. McCabe (marginally at this point)

OR

10. Barnes
12. JOC (James O'Connor)
13. McCabe (marginally)

Beale getting back into the swing of it does gives up more options though, and at least gives us the ability to carry two of the three (McCabe, Horne, Fainga'a) in the centres. I think the Horne try was telling - Barnes to Beale (who threw the magic ball) to Horne.

The most important role Beale did last weekend was get into first receiver and give another option other than Barnes to step up into first receiver and be a play making option. Neither McCabe nor AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can do that role, which was what made our backline so limited in the first two tests. I think most sides need someone capable of playing first receiver when the flyhalf is, say, in a ruck, and it limits teams who can't do it (and why the Tahs look better with Foley at 15, and with Beale at 15 last year).

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Yup, my preferred combinations are similar:

10. Cooper
12. Barnes
13. McCabe (marginally at this point)

OR

10. Barnes
12. JOC (James O'Connor)
13. McCabe (marginally)

Mine also...

 

[Sully]

I have a problem pushing good 12 out to 13. The positional change isn't as easy as people think. I haven't watched McCabe at 13 but I've seen Tapuai struggle.

 

[Bullrush]

The most important role Beale did last weekend was get into first receiver and give another option other than Barnes to step up into first receiver and be a play making option. Neither McCabe nor AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can do that role, which was what made our backline so limited in the first two tests. I think most sides need someone capable of playing first receiver when the flyhalf is, say, in a ruck, and it limits teams who can't do it (and why the Tahs look better with Foley at 15, and with Beale at 15 last year).

I have to say that I don't fully understand this. I don't know that you see it happening a lot with the other first tier teams, ABs and SA in particular. Steyn and DC are first receiver probably 98% of the time. If your 1st-five is good enough, how often do you should you need (or should you need) another option??

 

[Ash]

Firstly, Barnes tends to take the ball to the line, and be involved in rucks, meaning he is often not available when there is sometimes quick ball. Actually, I'd say there is often times in games when your flyhalf is out of the game and you want someone who can make the right decision and throw the right pass to step up.

A guy like Conrad Smith or Dagg for the ABs can step in and pass the ball to SBW, or SBW can pass the ball to Smith.

Watch the ABs closely and see how often a guy like SBW or Dagg or Smith will end up first receiver and throw a pass. I think that you will find it is more often than you think. That didn't happen for the Wallabies until Beale returned.

 

[Paradox]

Hyperbole Harry strikes again.

Sorry mate, Horne has been great in attack and defense this season for the Tahs. Breaks lots of tackles, the line and never misses a tackle

Please justify his selection before resorting to name calling and quote me some stats to back your thoughts up. You'll struggle.

 

[Paradox]

I think Barnes should be 12 assuming Cooper/JOC (James O'Connor) slot in at 10. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will probably get first go at 13 just due to his experience. Hopefully McCabe gets some experience at 13 for the Brumbies although it's unlikely with Smith playing well and Tomane laying in wait.

 

[Bullrush]

Firstly, Barnes tends to take the ball to the line, and be involved in rucks, meaning he is often not available when there is sometimes quick ball. Actually, I'd say there is often times in games when your flyhalf is out of the game and you want someone who can make the right decision and throw the right pass to step up.

A guy like Conrad Smith or Dagg for the ABs can step in and pass the ball to SBW, or SBW can pass the ball to Smith.

Watch the ABs closely and see how often a guy like SBW or Dagg or Smith will end up first receiver and throw a pass. I think that you will find it is more often than you think. That didn't happen for the Wallabies until Beale returned.

If DC is available eg. didn't just take the ball to the line himself he is almost always first receiver. And if he isn't then it's not a big deal. Honestly, if you're a pro rugby player how hard can it be to catch a ball and pass it to the next guy?!?

You will rarely ever see SBW, Dagg or Smith be the first receiver and run a back-line move though.

I'll stand by the statement that if you're 10 is a good enough player, you don't really worry too much about having another option to do what he's supposed to.