Rugby Championship 2012: Our Backline

[Schadenfreude]

Well - Now McCabe and Beiber are in the leadership group, I imagine there won't be many long passes required.

 

[Scotty]

If everyone is fit and firing, I would suggest that unless QC (Quade Cooper) does sort out his defence, he will be the one missing out.

Either that or we just put Beale at 10 and Quade at 15 full time. Quade's broken field running is also very good, but just behind Beale's, but where he makes up for it back there is his ability to distribute the ball and set up the wingers.

Imagine QC (Quade Cooper) and Beale lining up against you in broken field!

 

[Richo]

Love that you talked yourself into it so quickly, Scotty.

I wonder, though, how much sense it makes playing guys out of position so consistently. It's not like Dagg is a compromised flyhalf.

 

[Swat]

Just a thought guys. When was the last time you saw our backline absolutely carve up?

I don't think our backline has outclassed anyone since the 2010 EOYT against france and guess what? Duel playmakers, Cooper and Barnes. I think it's great that we utilise "roving wingers" in Digby and JOC (James O'Connor) but honestly how long since you have seen one of these guys make a break on the wing and get to use their skills to beat a guy one on one rather than trying to bust through the midfield from an inside ball. Sure, it has worked but it tends to be working less and less as our opposition wise up to it. I love having defensively great centres but not as much as I enjoy wingers being put into space. I get what Dingo has been trying to do but he's killing the possibilities of well executed back line plays. Something we used to pride ourselves on.


Edit: By the way I think France were 6 nations champs that year?

 

[Lior]

I read that article about McCabe being in the leadership group and I thought it was interesting. Interesting but flawed. I don't think McCabe should be a guaranteed starter which placing him in that group could render his position in the side close to permanent. We have Quade Cooper and James O'Connor returning from Injury, we have Berrick Barnes performing quite well. As well as this, when push comes to shove, I think Anthony Fainga'a, should certainly be considered especially for matches against the AB's where his defence will be oh so important.

I don't see us winning against the AB's employing similar tactics to what we did last year or in the Wales series for that matter. Deans needs to open it up, and I'm unsure whether McCabe is the man to score tries against the AB's.

 

[Braveheart81]

Something has to be said about building on a consistent team though.

We've beaten Wales 3-0 and in many ways our hand was forced in terms of the backline that could be selected during the series due to player availability.

Whilst a more attacking backline could potentially be good against the All Blacks, something has to be said for building combinations and using the current series as a stepping stone to TRC.

Whilst we have Cooper, O'Connor, Mitchell and Tapuai becoming available and other options possible in the midfield, there would also be a risk making wholesale changes to our backline ahead of TRC.

The fact that O'Connor, Cooper, Mitchell and Tapuai weren't available at the start of the test season makes it a bit of a double edged sword in terms of whether selecting them for TRC would be beneficial to the team or a step backwards.

 

[Viking]

Something has to be said about building on a consistent team though.

We've beaten Wales 3-0 and in many ways our hand was forced in terms of the backline that could be selected during the series due to player availability.

Whilst a more attacking backline could potentially be good against the All Blacks, something has to be said for building combinations and using the current series as a stepping stone to TRC.

Whilst we have Cooper, O'Connor, Mitchell and Tapuai becoming available and other options possible in the midfield, there would also be a risk making wholesale changes to our backline ahead of TRC.

The fact that O'Connor, Cooper, Mitchell and Tapuai weren't available at the start of the test season makes it a bit of a double edged sword in terms of whether selecting them for TRC would be beneficial to the team or a step backwards.

This is where Super XV form really needs to come into contention. As we know Dean's does not give super xv form players the recognition they deserve, this is supported by many of his recent selections. There is still a few super games left, some will be very crucial especially to the Reds and Brumbies. In these remaining games if Cooper steps up his defense, or JOC (James O'Connor) shows good form at flyhalf, or Tapuai shows great form at 13, then IMO a back-line change needs to take place.

Mitchell is a tough one, even if he shows great form, Digby still deserves a wing spot, and JOC (James O'Connor) has got to be in the team and will most likely end up on the wing unless he plays flyhalf (maybe centre too).

 

[Viking]

As far as im concerned, Flyhalf, a Centre spot, and a Wing spot is still in heavy contention. So basically Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horne still need some work to do to hold there spots. (sounds harsh on them but JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper, Tapaui just offer way more, especially in attack.)

 

[Braveheart81]

I think JOC (James O'Connor) is a good chance to push AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to the bench, but I think Cooper and Tapuai would have to be phenomenal to force their way into the starting backline for the first TRC game against New Zealand.

Barnes and Horne both had good series against Wales and will be considered the incumbents when TRC starts. I think the onus is well and truly on Cooper and Tapuai to force their selection rather than Barnes and Horne playing to retain their selection.

 

[Scotty]

The fact that O'Connor, Cooper, Mitchell and Tapuai weren't available at the start of the test season makes it a bit of a double edged sword in terms of whether selecting them for TRC would be beneficial to the team or a step backwards.

My view is that you would only select from outside the June international squad if you are selecting a player that a) has previously made an impact in test rugby and b) has super XV form. That would discount Tapuai from the above (unless he comes in part what through the RC due to consistent failures of others.

If Cooper gets back to blistering form, he should be at least a part of the 22. If Mitchell and JOC (James O'Connor) also get back to form, I would have them as part of the 22 as well and if it is wing they are fighting it out for, I'd be selecting Mitchell over JOC (James O'Connor), but suspect Robbie won't.

These players coming back into form allow others that didn't have super XV form or past test form to be relegated to the wider squad.

 

[Swarley]

Either that or we just put Beale at 10 and Quade at 15 full time. Quade's broken field running is also very good, but just behind Beale's, but where he makes up for it back there is his ability to distribute the ball and set up the wingers.

Imagine QC (Quade Cooper) and Beale lining up against you in broken field!

I think Beale's easily the option at fullback. Playing at Super Rugby level, Quade has a lot more space to move, which suits his expansive and multi-faceted skill set. However, at international level, defences are (generally speaking) more structured, organised, and effective. Beale's playing style works much better in limited space than Cooper's does, with the chip kicks, snakey runs etc. Take a look at a KB (Kurtley Beale) highlights package of the EOYT. His efforts there were far more effective than Quade's were throughout the whole Wallabies campaign of 2011.

On another note, I think our backline this year will suffer due to the loss of Lealiifano. It may be a premature call, but he could be the missing link that stabilises our "superstar" players. My preferred backline would be:

9. Genia
10. Lealiifano
11. Ioane
12. McCabe
13. Horne
14. O'Connor
15. Beale
--------------------------
20. White
21. Barnes/Cooper
22. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Mitchell

Alternatively:
9. Genia
10. Lealiifano
11. Ioane
12. O'Connor
13. McCabe
14. Mitchell/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Beale
--------------------------
20. White
21. Barnes/Cooper
22. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Mitchell

Lealiifano's presence brings the stability of Barnes with the expansiveness of Cooper. In the first option, it allows JOC (James O'Connor) to stay at #14 without having him wasted on the wing, instead playing a roaming winger type role where he can receive quick ball from Lealiifano's brilliant long passing game. This also deals with the issue of McCabe's questionable distribution skills. The biggest bonus though is the fact that he doesn't have to be hidden like Quade. A lot of Barnes' support comes from his steadiness and reliability. Lilo brings the whole package- attack, defence, open play kicking and goal kicking. His selection could potentially negate the supposed need of having a second playmaker to support Cooper, which in turn opens up an extra spot in the backline for McCabe/O'Connor at #12.

O'Connor is too good to leave out of the team. Genia, Beale, Digby and JOC (James O'Connor) are certain starters in any feasible situation. McCabe is rising through the ranks, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell, Barnes and Horne will continue to play supporting roles. This situation allows us to keep our biggest strength- our enigmatic attacking flair- whilst eliminating possibly our biggest weakness- Quade's (and others') defence.

For now, the next best thing (IMO) is:
9. Genia
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
11. Ioane
12. Barnes
13. McCabe
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Beale
--------------------------
20. White
21. Cooper
22. Mitchell/Horne

 

[TOCC]

Lelifano is good but he doesn't have the ball distribution of Quade

 

[fatprop]

I think our backline this year will suffer due to the loss of Lealiifano

Lealiifano looked great for 10 or 11 weeks of Super Rugby, whether or not he would have continued that form and been able to transfer that form to test rugby is pure supposition.

If he stayed fit, he may have played in the Scottish game, but I just don't think Deans would have started him (an untried 10) against the Welsh anyway.

 

[Slim 293]

I disagree.

Lilo's form was that good that he would've started against the Welsh.

I think Deans would've more likely have played Barnes against Scotland to give Lilo the break going into the Welsh series.

Unfortunately the 'break' for Lilo came elsewhere.

 

[Viking]

Lealifano's distribution was very good this year. He would be my first choice flyhalf, on form, if he hadnt got injured. Of coarse his distribution is not as good as Quades, but it isnt far behind. His decision making is a lot better. You've got to feel bad for Lealifano, he's going to have a hard time getting a shot as he'll now be competing with a healthy Quade, JOC (James O'Connor)/Beale, and an in-form Barnes.

 

[Slim 293]

Lealifano's distribution was very good this year. He would be my first choice flyhalf, on form, if he hadnt got injured. Of coarse his distribution is not as good as Quades, but it isnt far behind. His decision making is a lot better. You've got to feel bad for Lealifano, he's going to have a hard time getting a shot as he'll now be competing with a healthy Quade, JOC (James O'Connor)/Beale, and an in-form Barnes.

To give Lilo credit, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale never looked like better playmakers this year.......

Anyways, hopefully the're all fit next year so there can be no hypothetical debates.......

 

[Swarley]

I disagree.

Lilo's form was that good that he would've started against the Welsh.

I think Deans would've more likely have played Barnes against Scotland to give Lilo the break going into the Welsh series.

Unfortunately the 'break' for Lilo came elsewhere.

Slim I'm obviously a massive Lilo fan as well, but do you honestly think Deans would have started him against the Welsh?

I mean, he was competing with McCabe and Barnes (two Deans favourites) for the 10/12 jersey, and he's never picked him before. Not saying he didn't deserve selection, just saying I don't think he'd have gotten it.

 

[fatprop]

To give Lilo credit, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale never looked like better playmakers this year...

Anyways, hopefully the're all fit next year so there can be no hypothetical debates...

agreed, but that doesn't equate to a Wobs starting role for an untried player, it equates to squad opportunities, a bench spot - maybe, and the tour in November.

that may not be fair or right, but it is the way it is. Foley sat on the sidelines as a wider squad unit throughout the series, if Lilo was fit he probably would have had his spot collecting splinters and learning the systems whilst holding the tackling bags

 

[Viking]

He deserved to start but I dont think Deans would have started him. Which is why I don't like Deans.

 

[Sully]

He would've got a start. Against Scotland or in the third test. But not in the first test.


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