Reddy!
Bob Davidson (42)
Yeh mate, have you seen the Boks 3N squad yet?! Their backs are bigger than our forwards. And their forwards eat the combined weight of our pack in food each day.
Robbie Deans Report Card
- Thread starter Langthorne
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Yeh mate, have you seen the Boks 3N squad yet?! Their backs are bigger than our forwards. And their forwards eat the combined weight of our pack in food each day.
Reddy!
Bob Davidson (42)
Hmm the Irish backline looked alot better than ours, and it is unfortunate for them that a few dropped balls and wierd running lines cost them a try or two. Strangely enough, Brian O'Driscol can be blamed for some of this :S
Because it frees him up from the main job to wander about and spot new talent or work with the talent at a lower level.
In NZ we have guys like Mike Cron who trips around making all our scrums the same because it works - until someone in the oppo figures out it's weaknesses and then they have to change, but I digress... Anyway, maybe Robbie should be re-employed as a technical advisor and leave the motivating and tactics to someone who isn't... fucking you up.
It's just as frustrating for me too - I know that result won't count for two turd when it comes to Bledisloe time, because the Wobblies (and every other proper bloody nation) grow an extra ball.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Agree re looked better...but didn't finally execute at all well, less well than usual for Ireland.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
My Issues with Deans:-
1. Failure to use the bench even when players are failing to fire.
2. Selections - this week why did he select Chapman as 2nd row cover? Why not do what he says he has been doing and blood one of the young up and coming locks, Douglas, Simmons, Wykes? Why stick with Mumm who doesn't seem to translate his S14 form to the international game. Chisholm who has been tried again and again (50 tests) never reaching the required level. The fact of the matter is Deans has not developed any depth except where he has had no choice at all. The players in use now are pretty much those he inherited from Connolly less retirements, and the few like Genia who demanded their place on undeniable form. He then plays those players into the ground (Genia obviously wasn't fit last week and Deans didn't sub him after he damaged his hand in the first half and was even more obviously impeded.
My initial faith in Deans shakey last week is now gone. Even the return of significant assets such as Moore, Robinson and Genia will do little to combat the lethagy and poor selections that the Wallabies have shown thus far. This is the 3rd year of Deans contract and I would argue that the standard of play on a good day is excellent but they happen about 1 in ten games the rest is the same dross we got with Connolly and Jones before him.
1. Failure to use the bench even when players are failing to fire.
2. Selections - this week why did he select Chapman as 2nd row cover? Why not do what he says he has been doing and blood one of the young up and coming locks, Douglas, Simmons, Wykes? Why stick with Mumm who doesn't seem to translate his S14 form to the international game. Chisholm who has been tried again and again (50 tests) never reaching the required level. The fact of the matter is Deans has not developed any depth except where he has had no choice at all. The players in use now are pretty much those he inherited from Connolly less retirements, and the few like Genia who demanded their place on undeniable form. He then plays those players into the ground (Genia obviously wasn't fit last week and Deans didn't sub him after he damaged his hand in the first half and was even more obviously impeded.
My initial faith in Deans shakey last week is now gone. Even the return of significant assets such as Moore, Robinson and Genia will do little to combat the lethagy and poor selections that the Wallabies have shown thus far. This is the 3rd year of Deans contract and I would argue that the standard of play on a good day is excellent but they happen about 1 in ten games the rest is the same dross we got with Connolly and Jones before him.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
As so often Reddy, you and I arrive at a similar place. Another point that must be derived from your observation re our poor backline coherence and capability v Ireland is this: when a top side goes from the relative backline excellence of Perth to the sad and sorry state of same last night - only a few short weeks apart - there MUST be serious issues within the team and team management re (a) psychological motivation and mutual player trust (b) poor backline coaching intensity and related coaching skill (c) far too low levels of relentless practice to consolidate combinations, habitual running lines, etc. And it's just these dimensions that the best coaches routinely oversight and never let become the type of discipline and execution decay we saw in Sydney and again at our fine rugby citadel last night.
Great coaching matters!! I have serious doubts if the Wallabies have adequate, dedicated backline coaching resources and technical support of the highest order. And, more generally, as I survey Deans' increasingly erratic public statements and wildly shifting policies (eg, bring back the old guard for the RWC), I become more and more convinced that he does not have anything like the right engagement with the mental and morale centre of this team. I suspect the Elsom-Giteau spats, the downcast Burgess, the falling-off-a-cliff Mitchell, are symptoms of darker problems than are made public. And the constant blaming of the players and 'good selection is all that matters' (and the related 'kick 'em up the arse' advice) vs any focus upon the management elite's responsibilities and their actual skills (technical and man-management) as they impact the Wallabies, will do nothing to address or fix the deeper problems that are so clearly there.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Hey Gnostic - hello there - and welcome to the dark and dangerous world of the recent-Deans-doubters (I know what it feels like to be there already).
Remember Connolly's w-l ratio is way better than Deans is today. And as I recall he endured far more attacks for his coaching capability and game losses when they occurred than Deans is enduring today. During mid-2007 for example, just before that year's Tris Final, Growden was running a vicious, gossip-based campaign against him on the grounds there was massive dissension in his coaching ranks. Today Growden barely touches Deans, it is always the players whom 'need a rocket', or 'must step up to their responsibilities, poor Deans is cast by Growden as 'just exasperated as his players let him down again', etc.
Deans is licensed by Teflon and powered by God.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Aww thanks RH, but I don't understand why you have a picture of Burgess celebrating a try against the Reds. It disgusts me.
Reddy, that arrived by vapour from our moderators! No doubt, with good humour and wit intended as most support the Tahs, do they not? But note: the photo is pre-2010 Reds I think. That really does say it all.
At the risk of enraging the Piggy Power Cartel on this forum and actually discuss back play (which is apparently irrelevant), we have for too long in this country snubbed the input of past masters of the game, intentional or not.
Why have players like Horan, Farr-Jones, Lynagh, Ella(s), Campese, etc...been so under-utilised in Aus rugby?
Maybe they are not interested, maybe they have not been approached, I don't know, but it seems to me there is a motherlode of experience and knowledge to be mined.
We have no problem with employing every ex-hooker for the last 20 years as a Talking Head or forwards coach, and I'm sure their collective wisdom is massive, especially Jeremy Paul (tool), but seem to rely on some intangible "expansive" gene in backline play to be passed on mystically from generation to generation. The gene has mutated.
Many of the assumed skills have died, some are being killed weekly by The Cancerous Crab at 12, and players with innate freakishness like Cooper come along infrequently.
I await the invective in reply...
Why have players like Horan, Farr-Jones, Lynagh, Ella(s), Campese, etc...been so under-utilised in Aus rugby?
Maybe they are not interested, maybe they have not been approached, I don't know, but it seems to me there is a motherlode of experience and knowledge to be mined.
We have no problem with employing every ex-hooker for the last 20 years as a Talking Head or forwards coach, and I'm sure their collective wisdom is massive, especially Jeremy Paul (tool), but seem to rely on some intangible "expansive" gene in backline play to be passed on mystically from generation to generation. The gene has mutated.
Many of the assumed skills have died, some are being killed weekly by The Cancerous Crab at 12, and players with innate freakishness like Cooper come along infrequently.
I await the invective in reply...
It's like a community service to you poor Reds fans who need to be grounded at times by reminding you that, deep down, even you have to admit that despite being the saviours of the S14 this year, you finished behind boring NSW.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
It's like a community service to you poor Reds fans who need to be grounded at times by reminding you that, deep down, even you have to admit that despite being the saviours of the S14 this year, you finished behind boring NSW.
Touche.
T
tranquility
Guest
don't encourage them mate.
waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
i think backline play has changed to much since Horan and Co left for them to actually have much of an impact. They played in a time of a completely different defensive structure and i dont think would have made the same impact as they did. Kafer, well, when is the last time his analysis actually happened before something, he is the king of going to the videotape and pointing out the bleeding obvious, his chalkboard now only ever includes "pause it there and what do you think happened next?", im not sure he can actually give an insight at ground level without a monitor.
When Australia won the 99 cup, we did so on the back of a new defensive system that was far ahead of the other teams. the backline while good wasnt what led us to the cup and i think gets much more credit than it deserves. Deans has tried to install the 'Crusaders style' on the wallabies, but im not even sure that would work for the all blacks at international level. I dont think he is blooding players at all, he is just throwing shit against a wall. The australian jersey should be earned and not shared between 60 players.
If deans was such a master coach we would be moving in a new direction that would make other teams have to adjust there style to play against us. Instead we are trying to play like other teams do, were just a few years behind on it and not quite as good. If you were in the All Black or springbok camps you would just be having a laugh at what were throwing out there currently and its not good enough.
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
Well, WJ, you have a point about defence. The Wallabies used to have a brick wall defence. When Robbie came in and started tinkering, we gave away more points immediately. At the time I said - give it time. Because he was trying to put in place a system where defence becomes attack. But for whatever reason, this aspect of Wallaby play has been a complete failure. Our defence is numerically a lot worse, and we aren't turning defence into attack.
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