Robbie Deans Report Card

[daz]

Look, I think you know what I am getting at. Was just trying to make the point in extremis: I want to see evidence on July 24 of proper corrective action, in depth, done is an intensely committed manner, and of the standards expected of an expensive, elite coaching group.

I don't want PR statements, progress updates, and reassuring homilies that are never delivered on the field of dreams.

I know what you meant mate and I agree with you. Forgive my little fishing expedition....

 

[disco]

Agree with a lot of the post's on this thread especially the bigger is better when talking backlines, the two playmaker set up isn't working plus Giteau & Barnes aren't creating a lot anyway.

In the wallaby glory days we really ran everything off Larkham & Quade Cooper has the passing game to run & set up a backline on his own.

Look at the Saffas & Kiwis they play a ball running inside centre & it works for them.

I'd would like to see this backline in action one day.

9. Genia 10.Quade 11.Ioane 12.Horne 13.Chambers 14.Hynes 15.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

I still think Horne needs to add about 4-5kg to his frame be really effective at test level.

 

[waratahjesus]

i just realised, if Australian rugby progresive thinking scored us an unwanted kiwi coach just as the kiwi style went into decline, then perhaps after the next world cup we can get a saffa coach and start heading in that direction, so we can watch the world move away from a different perspective.

 

[Reddy!]

9. Genia 10.Quade 11.Ioane 12.Horne 13.Chambers 14.Hynes 15.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

I still think Horne needs to add about 4-5kg to his frame be really effective at test level.

It has the Little - Herbet feel to it.

And I do hope AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) returns to fullback if he is not going to played in the centres.

 

[Scarfman]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not a fullback. Fucksake! It seems there is a rule against playing him at 13. It took Cueball and Deans about 2 years to turn Mils Mul. into a fullback, and I'm not sure it was worth the effort. He should have stayed at 13.

Hynes is the best fullback we have. As in, plays like a fullback. The second best is Turner.

So, you've got locked in:
9 Genia
10 Cooper
13 Ashley-Cooper
15 Hynes
22 Turner

For wingers, the best blind side winger by a mile is Ioane. The best openside winger is Mitchell. Yes, his defence is flakey, but with Hynes at the back, you feel a lot safer. So will Schmoo. If Schmoo is off form, then Rod Davies gets a run.

So, now we're up to:
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
13 Ashley-Cooper
14 Mitchell
15 Hynes
22 Turner

We need a 12 and 21. This is where is gets hard. Candidates include Giteau, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Horne, Chambers, Fainga'a. At the start of the season I would have gone Giteau and Horne. Now, I think Fainga'a and Giteau is worth a look, plus Chambers is there when Fainga'a or Horne gets injured.

So, finally:
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Fainga'a
13 Ashley-Cooper
14 Mitchell
15 Hynes
20 Burgess
21 Gteau
22 Turner


In short, I believe that all positions except 12 and 21 are no-brainers, so why move everyone out of their best postions just to fill one problem position?

 

[Joe Blow]

Deans has coached and brought the backline on well.
There is good depth and a lot of options in the backs.
The problem is the pack and one must question whether Jim Williams is the right man for the job.
The recent June tests and Baa Baas matches were not used to blood potential tight 5 players except where injury gave the selectors little choice.
Our second row needs some help and the backrow could use a tweak.
Deans has to select a squad for the 3Ns in a week and he really doesn't know if Simmons or Douglas are up to it.
Also will he take a chance on Higgenbotham if fit?

 

[Scarfman]

G'day Joe, welcome aboard.

I have some disagreements, though.

1. The NSW and QLD backs played really well this year. Maybe that's why there is depth. Not sure that they are playing well for the Wallabies, though. In fact, I'm sure they're not.
2. Not used to blood ... except where injured? Baxter wasn't injured.
3. Deans doesn't know if Simmons or Douglas are up to it? How sure was he about James Slipper, based on 2 half games in the Super 14?

You could well be right that Deans knows what he's doing. But it's very hard to defend him because his selections defy logic - a little bit of form (Cooper, Sharpe), a little bit not (Chisholm, Brown), a little bit adventurous (front row), a little bit conservative (backs).

 

[Scarfman]

And another thing - if Deans is trying to improve depth, why doesn't he used his bench more? Especially when the XV are having a Barry, like England in Sydney.

 

[TOCC]

9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Fainga'a
13 Ashley-Cooper
14 Mitchell
15 Hynes
20 Burgess
21 Gteau
22 Turner

I agree scarfman, this is probably the best lineup for Australia at the moment. I was thinking today about the saying of how a team of superstars doesnt make a superstar team.
Currently, we are trying to jam Giteau, JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper and Beale all into the same backline, it doesnt work out.

If we agree that Cooper is the best 5/8, we then need to look at what makes him so good, firstly its his 'x' factor or unpredictability which leaves the defence guessing, secondly its the players around him, Cooper is only as good as the players running onto the ball. Cooper revels in the Reds backline because he is the playmaker and everyone else are practically just finishers or crashballers. I think Quade had a try assist or involvement in upwards of 70% of the Reds tries, it was rare that we witnessed either Chambers or Fainga'a in a playmakers role.

What the Wallabies need are centres and wingers who are there to run lines off Quade.. Giteau, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale all try to act as playmakers when really they should be running off Quade more.

 

[Reddy!]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not a fullback.

Scarfman you are right, and I also agree that Hynes should be fullback so I kinda take what I said back. I guess I said AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to fullback because a) O'Connor isn't cutting it at the moment from fullback b) Hynes has been overlooked so far this season in any position c) Beale is still a test rookie and in the same boat as O'connor. So basically AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is left and has played enough football there before. But that still, I want Hynes too.

 

[Gnostic]

If we agree that Cooper is the best 5/8, we then need to look at what makes him so good, firstly its his 'x' factor or unpredictability which leaves the defence guessing, secondly its the players around him, Cooper is only as good as the players running onto the ball. Cooper revels in the Reds backline because he is the playmaker and everyone else are practically just finishers or crashballers. I think Quade had a try assist or involvement in upwards of 70% of the Reds tries, it was rare that we witnessed either Chambers or Fainga'a in a playmakers role.

What the Wallabies need are centres and wingers who are there to run lines off Quade.. Giteau, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale all try to act as playmakers when really they should be running off Quade more.

I think this is correct to a point. Giteau was the best 12 in Australia bar none when Larkham was running the show and not because of how good Larkham was. Giteau running from twelve was excelent, he didn't have to direct play just run off and support Larkham. After four years of trying to turn hi, into a 10 I think Giteau is struggling to find his lines at 12. Hence he isn't performing to what we remember of him. The key is Giteau has been out of form since the test season started last year and it became plain that he wouldn't be sole 10 and in gradually lost confidence. Even his defence is slipping now. I think he is plainly unhappy in all aspects of Rugby in Oz and as soon as the RWC is over he will be gone.

He is not a 10 and if Cooper was to be injured Giteau is not the answer. In all honesty I would rather go conservative and select Hangers at 10 with JOC (James O'Connor) beside him than play Giteau at 10 again. If Giteau cannot start to play as a 12, as he used to, then bite the bullet and drop him from the 22 and start Barnes at 12 and JOC (James O'Connor) as back-up.

 

[Gnostic]

Scarfman you are right, and I also agree that Hynes should be fullback so I kinda take what I said back. I guess I said AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to fullback because a) O'Connor isn't cutting it at the moment from fullback b) Hynes has been overlooked so far this season in any position c) Beale is still a test rookie and in the same boat as O'connor. So basically AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is left and has played enough football there before. But that still, I want Hynes too.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) get fullback IMO because he is the most reliable back in Oz. By far. No matter whether he is fielding kicks in the air or off the ground, running as last defender or general positioning AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) just doesn't get caught out real often no matter the pressure. The fact that he is a genuine counter attack threat adds to his value. JOC (James O'Connor) is coming along as is Beale but neither are as reliable as AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), though they may offer a bit more of that unpredictability that adds value in counter attack. Just not enough at this time to dislodge AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) from 15 if Horne is fit at 13.

However is Horne isn't fit, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 13 and Hynes/Turner at 15 with JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench to cover 12, wings and 15.

 

[Reddy!]

And TOCC you are right, too.

With Mortlock losing form and being injured and his test career looking over, people said that we wouldn't miss him. Well as it turns out we are. Just like we missed Larkham, Gregan and Latham when they exited the international scene. And this is more because of bad selection, e.g. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

 

[RedsHappy]

You could well be right that Deans knows what he's doing. But it's very hard to defend him because his selections defy logic - a little bit of form (Cooper, Sharpe), a little bit not (Chisholm, Brown), a little bit adventurous (front row), a little bit conservative (backs).

Tick, double tick. Scarf, I would just like to add to your logic-defying list: odd omissions or given-no-chances for no explicable reason if winning is the goal (Hynes, Baxter).

 

[Richo]

Scarfman, I like your backline and your argument generally makes sense. My only problem is your answer at 12/21. I think Giteau has to go from the 22 until he regains form. I like either Barnes and Fainga'a at 12, in part because both are obviously very comfortable playing with Cooper. Fainga'a is that classic, hard-running and hard-hitting 12 but I like Barnes to start because his defense is absolutely outstanding which is vital when playing next to Cooper. Also, in the event of injury or a blowout, Barnes can slide in as a serviceable 10.

Fainga'a off the bench gives the Wallabies a strong running option to throw at tired defenders. He might not be the creator that Gits is when in form, but he busts the line and has a good offload and that can be enough to change the game in the final 20 minutes. I'd be almost as happy with JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench instead of Turner or Fainga'a.

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Digby
12. Barnes
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Mitchell
15. Hynes

20. Burgess
21. Fainga'a
22. Turner

Sadly, I don't think there's much chance of seeing either mine or your line-up this winter...

 

[Joe Blow]

And another thing - if Deans is trying to improve depth, why doesn't he used his bench more? Especially when the XV are having a Barry, like England in Sydney.

Yes, the use(or lack thereof) of the bench has been puzzling. In both the second Pommy test and against the Irish Pocock was obviously not comfortable for the last 20 minutes.
Why not use the best performed Oz 7 in the Super 14? Deans reluctance to use Hodgson is baffling!
Now I hear that Deans has been keeping tabs on Cam Shepherd and is considering including him in his Tri Nations squad. Left field!
Yes he could fiddle with the backs to get the right combination but in my mind the forwards are the main problem, particularly against our SANZAR brothers.
He needs more beef in the back 5 and a better balance to the back row.
We can have the greatest set of backs in the history of the game but they won't win more than 30% of the time against decent opposition without a competitive pack of forwards.
Sounds eerily familiar.

 

[Richo]

Yes he could fiddle with the backs to get the right combination but in my mind the forwards are the main problem, particularly against our SANZAR brothers.

I agree. The thing is, he doesn't need to "fiddle" with the backs, he really just needs to play them in the positions to which they are most suited rather than keep searching for a magic formula.

 

[Gagger]

[video=youtube;AOmIdzcg16c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOmIdzcg16c[/video]

Script by RugbyReg, Editing by Moses

 

[rsea]

Hahahahaha love it!

 

[Scarfman]

OK, reviving this thread.

In today's Grumbles column:

Mumm recently talked to Deans about his form and what was required. The coach told Mumm that he wanted him to be more of a ball carrier. It also revolves around having more of a physical presence.

In my list of things wrong with the Wallabies, I don't see "TipTop needs to carry more". But I only got down to number 50 so it might be there.