Reds v Waratahs, round 19 2014

[qwerty51]

Yep I watched game Reg, perhaps I being harsh, but got pissed off when I saw the what appeared to be play fighting by Hooper and Gill, not what I expect from players trying to win games, remember how pissed off a huge amount of Wallaby supporters were when they saw Beale and Ioane laughing with All Blacks AFTER a game, well this was during game!!

You would've hated this

 

[Train Without a Station]

Wounds are still too fresh Lindo!

 

[fatprop]

One was a perfectly legal hit late after the whistle. Could be easily construed as an error, or failure to hear the whistle. Keep in mind Kepu hadn't stopped competing at the breakdown himself. If you are going to take offence to perfectly legal shots, you are far too sensitive.

he was pissed off, it was late, it was a cheap shot

 

[Ash]

Again the perpetrator (this time of a late hit/clean out) is ignored and the retaliation is punished

And again I say, send them both to the bin, stop the niggle/cheap shot and the reason for retaliation goes away everytime

Sorry fatprop, but I have to call you on this one. What you said is a load of crap, and completely ignorant of the rules and spirit of rugby.

Robinson had an otherwise legal cleanout but after the whistle. At worst a penalty, at best he could claim he didn't hear the whistle as Kepu was still playing on anyway, forming a ruck over a player.

Kepu responds with a few uppercuts and some hair pulling, and you think both players deserve the bin? Mate, a late cleanout is just a late cleanout. Upper cuts and hair pulling is a straight out yellow card, heading towards red territory.

Refs need to take control early to cut out the niggle and cheap shots. When a player retalliates with a punch, that player goes to the bin. If the instigator's crime is not worthy of the bin, the instigator does not. In this case, it's a legal cleanout on a guy playing on after the whistle anyway. It's not rocket surgery.

You can get complaining about it being a late cheap shot all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Kepu's trangression is a straight yellow, and Robinson's will never be a yellow.

 

[Ash]

And the next thing, will you be complaining that sledging is bin territory too after a player takes a swing at a sledger? It's no different.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If it was so late why was Kepu still contesting the ruck?

 

[Braveheart81]

Whether or not that is the direction from the authorities it doesn't make it right. Johnson made a normal everyday tackle - it was Beale's actions that put him in that position and it should be recognised as such.

If we don't then next thing we will see players jumping into tackles to try and earn penalties and have opposition players yellow carded.

I don't think this is likely. I don't think players have any desire to put themselves in a dangerous position just so they have a chance of winning a penalty or a card. These things are split second actions and if we're looking at this specific incident, it seemed like Beale's position in contact was a result of him trying to get his pass away, not because he tried to do make contact with the defender in any particular way.

I don't think Johnson did make a normal everyday tackle. He made a tackle that due to the defender being in a slightly bad position ended up flipping upside down.

The message should be pretty clear by now. The defender has an obligation not to put the player they are tackling in a dangerous position regardless of what happens.

The mitigating factor that Beale was slightly off the ground when contact was made meant that the referee went with a yellow card rather than a red card.

This has been the single most active area of the IRB in cracking down on dangerous play. I don't see it going in the other direction and if the situation repeated itself, the defender would be in trouble again.

 

[A mutterer]

i think the performance of the reds forwards is being overstated a bit here. sure they dominated the lineout, but they weren't dominant elsewhere around the park, a couple of players did well but the pack was still ineffectual.

once again the tahs took the foot off after scoring early points - this is a bad habit that continually reappears. someone posted the pic about floodgates opening early in the game, and it looked that way but that 10 -15 minutes following was frustrating to watch. the tahs are still leaving a lot of points on the park - and that's not necessarily a good thing heading into the finals.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Beau's head in that game - WOW. Don't think he will be taking up a career in modelling after rugby.

Only his mother would love it

 

[qwerty51]

i think the performance of the reds forwards is being overstated a bit here. sure they dominated the lineout, but they weren't dominant elsewhere around the park, a couple of players did well but the pack was still ineffectual.

once again the tahs took the foot off after scoring early points - this is a bad habit that continually reappears. someone posted the pic about floodgates opening early in the game, and it looked that way but that 10 -15 minutes following was frustrating to watch. the tahs are still leaving a lot of points on the park - and that's not necessarily a good thing heading into the finals.

It was a dead rubber for them, I'm actually surprised they played as well as they did. It would be tough playing full intensity for nothing.

Look at what happened to the NSW Origin team up at Suncorp (in pretty much the same position as the Waratahs). They got smashed.

 

[Scrubber2050]

i think the performance of the reds forwards is being overstated a bit here. sure they dominated the lineout, but they weren't dominant elsewhere around the park, a couple of players did well but the pack was still ineffectual.

once again the tahs took the foot off after scoring early points - this is a bad habit that continually reappears. someone posted the pic about floodgates opening early in the game, and it looked that way but that 10 -15 minutes following was frustrating to watch. the tahs are still leaving a lot of points on the park - and that's not necessarily a good thing heading into the finals.

You are in Tah Dreamland. Reds were dominant at set piece and convincingly.
If the Tahs cannot improve at set piece they will lose the finals !!!!!

 

[TahDan]

Has anyone else clicked that it's quite possible - if seemingly unlikely - that we could end up with an All Australia Super Rugby final if the results fall the right way?

It's tricky, but certainly not impossible; All we need is for the Highlanders to beat the Shawks at home - like they did to 31-18 earlier in the year - and for the Brumbies to then beat the Chiefs and Crusaders.

Of course the 'Tahs would have to beat the Highlanders too, but you'd think a semi final against the Tahs at home after two long haul flights would be too much for them, particularly after the Tahs mauled them a couple weeks ago.

But imagine that? Waratahs v Brumbies at ANZ in front of a full house (maybe) - would be unbelievable for the game here!

 

[A mutterer]

You are in Tah Dreamland. Reds were dominant at set piece and convincingly.
If the Tahs cannot improve at set piece they will lose the finals !!!!!

no not at all.

you can't get 30+ points put on you by another team and come up all smiles about the performance of the forwards. you had 3 or 4 guys put in good performances. i'm all for finding the positives in a performance (ffs i'm a tahs supporter) but winning the lineouts and a couple of scrums clearly wasn't enough. case in point - how long were you in the tahs 22 without scoring any points, particularly from forward plays?

not trying to flame here but as i said there has been a bit too much talking up about their performance.

 

[fatprop]

Sorry fatprop, but I have to call you on this one. What you said is a load of crap, and completely ignorant of the rules and spirit of rugby.

Robinson had an otherwise legal cleanout but after the whistle. At worst a penalty, at best he could claim he didn't hear the whistle as Kepu was still playing on anyway, forming a ruck over a player.

Kepu responds with a few uppercuts and some hair pulling, and you think both players deserve the bin? Mate, a late cleanout is just a late cleanout. Upper cuts and hair pulling is a straight out yellow card, heading towards red territory.

Refs need to take control early to cut out the niggle and cheap shots. When a player retalliates with a punch, that player goes to the bin. If the instigator's crime is not worthy of the bin, the instigator does not. In this case, it's a legal cleanout on a guy playing on after the whistle anyway. It's not rocket surgery.

You can get complaining about it being a late cheap shot all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Kepu's trangression is a straight yellow, and Robinson's will never be a yellow.

Chicken and egg mate, "legal" before the whistle is a niggly cheap shot after the whistle, it is done to provoke and I just don't like it.

I would send both to the bin, one for niggling, the other for not controlling himself.

Stopping the niggle stops the reason for the retaliation

simples

 

[Pfitzy]

You are in Tah Dreamland. Reds were dominant at set piece and convincingly.
If the Tahs cannot improve at set piece they will lose the finals !!!!!

The set piece that has pretty much taken apart every other unit they've faced? Yes you are correct that the Reds did very well, but I'm not reaching for the brown undies just yet.

I don't think this is likely. I don't think players have any desire to put themselves in a dangerous position just so they have a chance of winning a penalty or a card.

Yep. It isn't fucking FIFA after all.

 

[Scrubber2050]

no not at all.

you can't get 30+ points put on you by another team and come up all smiles about the performance of the forwards. you had 3 or 4 guys put in good performances. i'm all for finding the positives in a performance (ffs i'm a tahs supporter) but winning the lineouts and a couple of scrums clearly wasn't enough. case in point - how long were you in the tahs 22 without scoring any points, particularly from forward plays?

not trying to flame here but as i said there has been a bit too much talking up about their performance.

Reds forwards were good. Tahs quite and very surprisingly poor particularly at set piece.

Tahs backs, especially KB (Kurtley Beale) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) were excellant.

Just goes to show that rugby games can be won and won well with a less than dominant set of forwards.

Thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) showed his absolute class and experience by swamping his opposite number.

If forward play does not improve the Tahs will not the next big games. AND I don't want that to happen.

 

[Ash]

Chicken and egg mate, "legal" before the whistle is a niggly cheap shot after the whistle, it is done to provoke and I just don't like it.

I would send both to the bin, one for niggling, the other for not controlling himself.

Stopping the niggle stops the reason for the retaliation

simples

In no sport or situation is a person who niggled a guy into doing an illegal deed punished like the person who did the deed. You get a punishment for each offence, as per the rule book. You niggle a person, he punches you in the head? Well, you may have asked for it, but he'll be the one in the bin and before the citing commissioner, and you will be on the field. You can't send someone to bin unless their behaviour warranted it. Whether or not a person reacts does not change the category of offence. It's always been this way, and will always be this way.

I can see your point of view, but can't agree, and I suspect most won't. I'm leaving it there.

 

[Ash]

no not at all.

you can't get 30+ points put on you by another team and come up all smiles about the performance of the forwards. you had 3 or 4 guys put in good performances. i'm all for finding the positives in a performance (ffs i'm a tahs supporter) but winning the lineouts and a couple of scrums clearly wasn't enough. case in point - how long were you in the tahs 22 without scoring any points, particularly from forward plays?

not trying to flame here but as i said there has been a bit too much talking up about their performance.

It was an improvement on the previous week for the Reds. And was probably in the top half of performances from the Reds' pack this year. Put it this way, it was miles ahead of the first game, where the Tahs pack blew the Reds away in everything but the lineout and the scrum (until Daley came on after 45 minutes, then the Tahs blew away the Reds there too).

The Reds had about 5.5 minutes in the Tahs' 22, compared to the Tahs' 1.5 minutes in the Reds. All bar one Tahs try was long range. I'd say that the Reds' forwards' biggest blemish was not being able to score from all that time in the Tahs' 22, but then again Beale and Lance created the Tahs close range try. The fact the Reds spent so long in the Tahs' 22 was because their pack went well, but obviously they came up short on scoring.

If you were taking a pack and as whole form that game, it's be the Reds. The Tahs backs were just that much better. Phipps, Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in particular. The only back I'd even consider close to making a combined team based alone on performance from that game would be Davies, whereas I'd probably take half or more of the Reds' pack (props, locks for starters).

The Tahs' execution and linking play was just fantastic to watch. With less chances they created and finished much more. The fact that the team can have a bit of an off night, be beaten and in the set piece and still win by 31 points is amazing (well, testamount to how well the Tahs are going this year and how badly the Reds are going).

 

[A mutterer]

If forward play does not improve the Tahs will not the next big games. AND I don't want that to happen.

agreed - hopefully this will be enough for them to take stock.

we can't keep relying on the good ol' chieka half time hairdryer.

 

[Dan54]

You would've hated this

Didn't even have to look at it Gwerty, it was league so naturally I hated it