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Reds v Waratahs, round 19 2014

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Train Without a Station

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It's just not sustainable to play that style of rugby long term- unless you are playing on heavy grounds in wet rainly conditions.

QH I think that's incorrect. It's unsustainable generally because rosters change. Teams due to financial constraints need to be consistently promoting promising young (cheap) players through the ranks as they cannot afford to keep other players who progress.

This style works great when you have large, yet somewhat limited players to execute it. Look at the Stormers, players like Kolisi, Aplon and De Juong have come through the system as the success of this style has diminished because they are not suited to this style of play and likely does not stimulate them.

The Reds in 2010-2013 would not have been successful attempting to play rugby because we lacked a strong, imposing pack and big, strong backs as well as kickers with a long kicking game.

Now a team with limited skill, but size and a good kicker would actually be able to successfully employ an ugly style long term as long as they had similar players coming through the system.

In short, the only reason it's not successful, is because a successful game plan revolves around the players you have and the players you can recruit, not moulding them to a game plan.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Not so sure about that. You need a particular mindset to go out with the intent to play that type of rugby and you also need total support from coaches, players, administrators, sponsors and supporters. It may or may not be enjoyable for certain coaches, but most players and supporters play or support rugby for different reasons. With the Waratah example - most of the players seemed not to be enjoying playing that style and the fans hated it.. Loss of fans = loss of money and makes the club/franchise less attractive to sponsors. This was the only thing which finally stung the NSWRU into action as it was affecting the bottom line.

It's certainly possible to go into a season with win ugly as a tactic because of your playing roster and to be successful, but I don't believe it's sustainable long term outside of the UK. Certainly not in Australia or NZ or France or the Pacific Islands.
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
As noted with the current Reds, the Waratahs were losing though. I would doubt there would be many examples of championship winning players not enjoying it.
 
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tranquility

Guest
If the options are winning ugly or losing, I will take the win as a one off.

But I won't be going to watch much if it is the continual approach and I will wish and hope the clowns coaching the shit are shafted

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Mate, you love it at the time. :)
 
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tranquility

Guest
Yes, but before that happened. The most one eyed on here defended it, like true loyalists, even as the ship was sinking. If you really want, I'm sure it can all be dug up. I really can't be bothered, but if we all want to play the forgetful game then we can test the cache.

Sometimes best to let sleeping dogs lie.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Not so sure about that. You need a particular mindset to go out with the intent to play that type of rugby and you also need total support from coaches, players, administrators, sponsors and supporters. It may or may not be enjoyable for certain coaches, but most players and supporters play or support rugby for different reasons. With the Waratah example - most of the players seemed not to be enjoying playing that style and the fans hated it.. Loss of fans = loss of money and makes the club/franchise less attractive to sponsors. This was the only thing which finally stung the NSWRU into action as it was affecting the bottom line.

It's certainly possible to go into a season with win ugly as a tactic because of your playing roster and to be successful, but I don't believe it's sustainable long term outside of the UK. Certainly not in Australia or NZ or France or the Pacific Islands.


Maybe this is true, but I don't see much evidence of it. SA is generally dry during the Super comp, the high veldt is certainly so, though Durban and Cape Town are wetter. But certainly not UK winter wetter.

But except for the Cheetahs, the South Africans all play some version of Jakeball. Their backs just never seem to learn how to put together ensemble play, but they sure do learn how to chase a kick. And they all seem to enjoy it. If you are right the Saffers should all be joyless players perpetually losing and their supporters leaving in droves. Au contraire, they are the best supported teams in the comp.

There is much more to it than this generalisation, but I suspect that it is true in the Australian context. Because of the competition from mungo, Australians are convinced that the rugby they want to watch sees players running hard and scoring lots of good tries. Stifling a game where penalty kicks decide the outcome is just not in our DNA. So we will not watch it long term if this is how the Super teams try to play.

At their best the Reds, Waratahs and Brumbies don't play that way. At their worst they do. The Force and Rebels are playing that way right now because their coaches are using it to make up for skill deficiencies in their squads (and perhaps to make up for their coaching deficiencies). But that is a short term solution that the Melbourne crowds especially have not embraced. All Australian sides need to realise that to be successful in a total, long term sense (crowds, fans, TV audiences as well as table position) they need to adopt a more attacking style of play. An Australian style just as distinctive as the South African style.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Yes, but before that happened. The most one eyed on here defended it, like true loyalists, even as the ship was sinking. If you really want, I'm sure it can all be dug up. I really can't be bothered, but if we all want to play the forgetful game then we can test the cache.

Wait, so you are angry because one-eyed supporters were....... one-eyed? Oh the horror.

Sometimes best to let sleeping dogs lie.

A bit late for that.
..
 

Tahspark

Ted Thorn (20)
I don't think in the whole history of mankind anything could eclipse the Quade thread.


In that thread Quade was blamed for every conceivable sin & omission & then some pertaining to the travails of Oz rugby.

However, for sheer blind loathing it would be hard to beat a Kiwi bloke that I used to play tennis with. After every test we'd be greeted on court on a Monday night with his latest anti-Cooper tirade. One particular week he went into great detail outlining Cooper's bad passes, missed tackles etc. When he finished I quietly pointed out that Cooper had been suited on the sideline due to his long term injury. :D

I hope that Cooper's rehab is progressing well - looking forward to seeing him back & helping the Reds climb in '15.
 
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tranquility

Guest
Wait, so you are angry because one-eyed supporters were... one-eyed? Oh the horror.

I remember reading sentiments, such as "this is just winning rugby, it's not supposed to be attractive." Or "winning rugby is not about looking the part."

The arrogance of these comments, when no other Australian teams were having success is always going to lose you supporters, even secondary ones. It has cost you a lot of primary ones too.

I'm not sure why you take it so personally that I hate your club, and everyone involved with it. But I wish good luck upon everyone who is playing you. Rest assured the rugby world does not want you to win this competition. But I hope you don't get any serious injuries.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
So you're holding unnamed punters from several years ago who apparently were supportive of poor rugby responsible for wanting a team playing exciting rugby now to lose?

Yeah. That makes sense.
 
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tranquility

Guest
Mate, once again. Why does anyone care ?

I can dig them up if you really want, I'm sure you are one of them. It doesn't take too much sniffing around to work out who posts on here quite a lot, that was posting around that time.

It has little to do with positive or negative rugby, but just of entitlement and arrogance. Although I am the only one voicing it, I am very certain that most on this forum do not want the Waratahs to win. Maybe not at the extent of another country winning as I do, but I am certain would prefer for the Brumbies to win.
 
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