Reds 2018

[Jets]

So I was going to head to Ballymore on Thursday night to watch the Reds play but just found out that I would have to pay $17 for the privilege and $10 for each of my kids.

 

[RugbyReg]

Ballymore is only 700m from Winston Train Station, well within the walk up catchment and is closer then Suncorp Stadium is to Roma St Station. The issue is, that incredibly there has never been a bridge or link across Breakfast Creek to make that walk possible.

The other factor is that Perry Park isn’t a liability for the QLD Govt going forward, but Ballymore potentially is if nothing is done with it. Yes QRU are the trustees currently, but if they can’t afford to maintain and improve it in the next few years, there’s every chance they may have to hand it back. In which case it does become the state governments responsibility.

the other factor is that most of that walk is through residential areas which the walk to Suncorp is not. They have enough issues with games and training at Ballymore from the local community now

 

[RugbyReg]

So I was going to head to Ballymore on Thursday night to watch the Reds play but just found out that I would have to pay $17 for the privilege and $10 for each of my kids.

yeah, I can't fathom that at all. Just ludicrous.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Ballymore is only 700m from Winston Train Station, well within the walk up catchment and is closer then Suncorp Stadium is to Roma St Station. The issue is, that incredibly there has never been a bridge or link across Breakfast Creek to make that walk possible.

The other factor is that Perry Park isn’t a liability for the QLD Govt going forward, but Ballymore potentially is if nothing is done with it. Yes QRU are the trustees currently, but if they can’t afford to maintain and improve it in the next few years, there’s every chance they may have to hand it back. In which case it does become the state governments responsibility.

Am sure a minor Typo TOCC but Wilston (not Winston) Railway Station is about (according to Google Maps) 1.8 kilometres from Ballymore.

 

[Ignoto]

Ballymore is only 700m from Winston Train Station, well within the walk up catchment and is closer then Suncorp Stadium is to Roma St Station. The issue is, that incredibly there has never been a bridge or link across Breakfast Creek to make that walk possible.

Couple things with that TOCC. While that station may be closer, it also requires 10-20k people to walk across Newmarket Rd and then through residential streets. They already shut down a lane of traffic on Roma St for pedestrians, I don't think Newmarket Rd or Granville St traffic could handle that? The station isn't a hub and will require multiple trains for people on the East, South and West. The Bowen Hills station has from what I can see 3 or 4 separate lines operating through it. So most people will be able to catch 1 train and end up there. Abbortsford Rd has three lanes of traffic each way, so it can handle one lane being close for pedestrians. There is also an entertainment precinct within walking distance from Perry Park which is serviced by multiple buses and ferry's.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Am sure a minor Typo TOCC but Wilston (not Winston) Railway Station is about (according to Google Maps) 1.8 kilometres from Ballymore.

TOCC meant as the crow flies. If you built a bridge directly adjacent to Vardon or Murray St, with a gate into the stadium it'd be well under 1km Doesn't solve any of the Wilston train station capacity or residents issues. And that's still a fair old walk for young kids/ancient rugby players etc. No convenient bus to/from Roma St or equivalent walk to Milton Road. Traffic is always terrible on game days for other public transport solutions too

 

[TOCC]

Am sure a minor Typo TOCC but Wilston (not Winston) Railway Station is about (according to Google Maps) 1.8 kilometres from Ballymore.

It’s 1.8km under the current design of footpaths and roads, which is why Wilson doesn’t get utilised to access Ballymore. However in the spirit of discussion upgrades and improving accessibility, a bridge directly across Breakfest Creek shortens that gap to only 700m. Which is well within the walk up catchment used for planning heavy rail.

 

[TOCC]

Couple things with that TOCC. While that station may be closer, it also requires 10-20k people to walk across Newmarket Rd and then through residential streets. They already shut down a lane of traffic on Roma St for pedestrians, I don't think Newmarket Rd or Granville St traffic could handle that? The station isn't a hub and will require multiple trains for people on the East, South and West. The Bowen Hills station has from what I can see 3 or 4 separate lines operating through it. So most people will be able to catch 1 train and end up there. Abbortsford Rd has three lanes of traffic each way, so it can handle one lane being close for pedestrians. There is also an entertainment precinct within walking distance from Perry Park which is serviced by multiple buses and ferry's.

You’re not going to have 20k people walking to the station.. it’s an additional means of dispersing the crowd and not the only means. Busses would still be fundamental to any transport plan for Ballymore

Yes Perry Park has its pros, I’m not disagreeing with that, but I’ve also listed my reasons why I think that it’s not a clear cut decision of choosing Perry Park over Ballymore. If we were talking about a new stadium to compete with Suncorp and a capacity of 35k or more, then I agree that Perry Park would be a better option for PT accessibility. But that’s not what’s going to happen, at best we will see a 15-20k boutique stadium.

Boutique by nature in that it’s not going to have all the corporate and media facilities which add to the overheads and are expected of corporate sponsors of a professional sporting team. One of these options is $300m, the other is $40million..

 

[Zero_Cool]

Couple things with that TOCC. While that station may be closer, it also requires 10-20k people to walk across Newmarket Rd and then through residential streets. They already shut down a lane of traffic on Roma St for pedestrians, I don't think Newmarket Rd or Granville St traffic could handle that? The station isn't a hub and will require multiple trains for people on the East, South and West. The Bowen Hills station has from what I can see 3 or 4 separate lines operating through it. So most people will be able to catch 1 train and end up there. Abbortsford Rd has three lanes of traffic each way, so it can handle one lane being close for pedestrians. There is also an entertainment precinct within walking distance from Perry Park which is serviced by multiple buses and ferry's.

But these are exactly the things that would also be upgraded. With regards to the 750m and 1.8km both are correct in their own ways. If you go from (the newly refurbished IIRC) Wilson Station down Vardon Street (or Murray Street) to the end it's about 500/550ish meters and mostly down hill (so we can probably round it down for actual walking). If we were then to then walk across the open and largely unused Finsbury Park, MJ airwalk jump across the Breakfast Creek, and walk to the center of the field we are totaling just a hair under 800 meters but as I pointed out before most of that is down hill so I think calling it 800m total even if you are going to the far side of the stadium isn't unfair. Moreover there is also Murray Street that is a tiny bit shorter but isn't as much a main street. (I'll try to attach a screenshot of the area and where I imagine a bridge might go, if it will work for me!)
I would also point out Lang Park is a much more mixed (up and down) 1km. Whole Perry Park is only 600m from Bowen Hills Train Station however the Ferry is a 1.6km from Perry Park so I think this is largely irrelevant. I think discussion about the Busses is largely irrelevant the addition or changing of bus routes is in my opinion is like squabbling over the cost of changing the locks when buying a house, the cost here is largely irrelevant and with a redevelopment the increased use would result in more services being provided. I would also add that 'Game Day' Busses' are quite normal particalry for the GABBA (and leave from Carindale, Chermside and other similar hubs) and I imagine trains but I've never noticed.

One can assume any revitalisation of Ballymore would include some kind of upgrade to the bridges/walkways as well as Finsbury Park. Comparing Ballymore and Perry Park the key differences really lay in the surrounding space and parklands and lack thereof in the case of Perry Park. Ballymore is roughly 125,000 m^2. It has a quite nice function center, and is surrounded by parklands and such on the other side of the Breakfast Creek (totallying around 100,000 m^2); moreover Ballymore is in a fairly low density residential area (particularly when compared to Perry Park). This can be contrasted with Perry Park that is in a largely industrial/commercial area. Perry Park only offers less than 50,000 m^2, and little in the way of other facilities that could be retained / repurposed.
The last thing is that Ballymore is literally a financial drain and is very decrepit. This is painfully obvious when you consider there have been at least 3 nearly actioned plans to upgrade Ballymore, Howard was going to do it in 2008 because it was desperate for it then, it's been a decade since. From what I have seen of Perry Park it's fairly modern and isn't as desperately in need of an upgrade.

Also one other thing that no one has really brought up (that I have seen) is that the RNA showgrounds could also be considered an option. But I think it fails on all the most criteria... except needing a revitalisation.

 

[TOCC]

I should add, any stadium at Ballymore won’t be hosting the Reds or Roar on a regular basis, except perhaps for the low drawing games and trial matches. Those days are done and dusted, both teams derive a significant amount of machday income from the corporate support, this requires corporate boxes, additional bars and halls for luncheons and dinners. All which add to the overheads. Any new stadium in Brisbane which is to feature those facilities is the realm of $300-$400million, if not more, in either case a significant investment.

From what I understand, what they would like for Ballymore is a comparatively bare-bones equivalent, low overheads and low maintenance, enough to broadcast and surge bars/food stalls if required by not much in terms of permanent installations.

 

[TOCC]

In other news, lance is over his hand injury and should get some time in the trial match tomorrow night alongside Toua

 

[emuarse]

In other news, lance is over his hand injury and should get some time in the trial match tomorrow night alongside Toua

I think Jono Lance is a real positive to share the flyhalf position with Hamish Stewart. At this moment in time, I can see Jono being the first pick to play, but that the two of them will be sharing the position over a long season.

 

[TOCC]

So I was going to head to Ballymore on Thursday night to watch the Reds play but just found out that I would have to pay $17 for the privilege and $10 for each of my kids.

Now consider this, the Melbourne Rebels cheapest tickets for Rd 1 of Super Rugby against the Reds is $15 for an adult and $6 for kids...

 

[SouthernX]

Brisbane is planning to bid for the 2028/2032 Summer Olympics games. There's been a massive injection of cash into new facilities in the South East QLD with the Commonwealth Games.

I don't know if Politicians can justify keep spending money on stadiums... But i'd love to see a Ballymore redevelopment. it certainly needs it

 

[upthereds#!]

Top flight trial team released - just about the top side we can do. No Lucas yet but all of Sorovi, Mcdermott, Stewart and Tela will get time. As will ASY (Angus Scott-Young) and Wright, but no Ready, Hoopert, Blyth, Nabuli or Maranta

 

[TOCC]

Pretty much the starting XV I would expect, I think the match day 23 is what we can expect round 1.

St.George Queensland Reds team to play Fiji Warriors
7:00pm, Thursday 15 February, Ballymore Stadium
1. James Slipper – Bond University
2. Brandon Paenga-Amosa – Sunnybank (uncapped)
3. Taniela Tupou - Brothers
4. Lukhan Tui - Souths
5. Kane Douglas - Norths
6. Caleb Timu - Souths
7. Adam Korczyk – University of Queensland
8. Scott Higginbotham (C) - Wests
9. James Tuttle - GPS
10. Jono Lance – University of Queensland
11. Izaia Perese - Easts
12. Duncan Paia’aua - Norths
13. Samu Kerevi - Souths
14. Chris Feauai-Sautia - Souths
15. Aidan Toua - Easts

Reserves
16. Alex Mafi – Bond University
17. JP Smith - GPS
18. Sef Fa’agase – University of Queensland
19. Harry Hockings – University of Queensland (uncapped)
20. Angus Scott-Young – University of Queensland (uncapped)
21. Moses Sorovi – University of Queensland
22. Hamish Stewart – Bond University
23. Filipo Daugunu – Wests (uncapped)
26. Liam Wright – Easts (uncapped)
27. Tate McDermott – University of Queensland (uncapped)
28. Teti Tela – Souths (uncapped

 

[SouthernX]

Pretty much the starting XV I would expect, I think the match day 23 is what we can expect round 1.

St.George Queensland Reds team to play Fiji Warriors
7:00pm, Thursday 15 February, Ballymore Stadium
1. James Slipper – Bond University
2. Brandon Paenga-Amosa – Sunnybank (uncapped)
3. Taniela Tupou - Brothers
4. Lukhan Tui - Souths
5. Kane Douglas - Norths
6. Caleb Timu - Souths
7. Adam Korczyk – University of Queensland
8. Scott Higginbotham (C) - Wests
9. James Tuttle - GPS
10. Jono Lance – University of Queensland
11. Izaia Perese - Easts
12. Duncan Paia’aua - Norths
13. Samu Kerevi - Souths
14. Chris Feauai-Sautia - Souths
15. Aidan Toua - Easts

Reserves
16. Alex Mafi – Bond University
17. JP Smith - GPS
18. Sef Fa’agase – University of Queensland
19. Harry Hockings – University of Queensland (uncapped)
20. Angus Scott-Young – University of Queensland (uncapped)
21. Moses Sorovi – University of Queensland
22. Hamish Stewart – Bond University
23. Filipo Daugunu – Wests (uncapped)
26. Liam Wright – Easts (uncapped)
27. Tate McDermott – University of Queensland (uncapped)
28. Teti Tela – Souths (uncapped

Just to clarify. You have uncapped next to some of those names.. trial matches count as CAPS @TOCC?

 

[Braveheart81]

Just to clarify. You have uncapped next to some of those names.. trial matches count as CAPS @TOCC?

Uncapped as far as Super Rugby games are concerned. I could be wrong but I don't think trial games count as official caps either because they are not quite official games due to increased benches, unlimited subs and often played in thirds or quarters.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Pretty much the starting XV I would expect, I think the match day 23 is what we can expect round 1.

Nah, I disagree, I think there are a few selections who scream 'trial' still.
No Andrew Ready, I personally think is a test between Alex Maif and Paenga-Amosa for the reserve Hooker spot but regardless Ready would be in the 23 he was very impressive in the 10's and it would be quite difficult to picture him not being in the 23.
The Lance selection at 10 so soon with virtually no real training time is a little worrying, plus I actually felt like Stewart was really starting to gain some traction. But if Lance does moderately well should be selected to start against the Rebels.
CFS selected on the wing for the first time in a while looks experimental. While Daugunu has been more tried and tested in so far as the wing goes.
Then both Moses Sorovi and Tate McDermott are both in the 23. There is no way you don't use that extra bench spot either for a forward or a *real* back.
Edit: Also I'd be starting Blyth over Douglass after his 10's performance; and Douglas would fall out of the 23. We have yet to really see very much from Douglass, maybe (hopefully) this is a last chance to show he must be selected.

 

[Slim 293]

Just to clarify. You have uncapped next to some of those names.. trial matches count as CAPS @TOCC?

Trial matches do not count as caps............