Reds 2016

[Gillys_ghost]

Call up for Benny lucas?

 

[Gnostic]

I cannot believe the level of unprofessional conduct from the QRU. Coming out with that statement basically is blaming the whole breakdown on QC (Quade Cooper) (ala ARU & Deans when we knew it to be different and has since been largely proven true). This is the "toxic" comment from the QRU itself. It is however in keeping with the general managerial competence of the board and toadies in that they are responsible for nothing and all problems lie with other individuals and therefore out of their control.

The fact that QC (Quade Cooper) is leaving the Reds is a short term disaster for the Reds. They do not have another 10 in the system with anywhere near his skills, with only Foley in Oz being comparable. As I said in the Coaching options thread regardless of players on deck next year was going to be a total rebuild for the Reds in any event, establishing a workable defensive structure and game plan. Without the foundation that QC (Quade Cooper) can provide to the backline the Reds are left with two genuine world class players in Slipper and Gill. This makes the rebuild so much harder and I cannot see the Reds having much success over the next few years.

On a marketing front the Reds have lost perhaps their biggest draw card, no other player has the appeal to the non-rusted on Rugby fan (and some rusted on fans as well). The attempt to use the Coke sniffer as a marketing tool backfired in a huge way and his performance have been that anonymous that it would be extremely unwise to use him again. So where to now?

For Australian Rugby this is a disaster IMO as the Reds were the only financially viable province even in the medium term. Even with the title last year the Tahs were relying on the home semi just to break even. Dress it up however you like, but if the reigning Champions cannot attract significant sponsorship and retain them it signals a huge business issue moving forward. If Qld Rugby falls further in a hole what does it mean for the game in this country?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Scrubber, as the only turth speaker and bastion of knowledge regarding the QRU, what is happening with the coach? I want names and dates of when people will be hired, fired and announced.

4918 -
Thank you for your incisive comment:
"turth speaker and bastion of knowledge"\


Seriously I have no isea as to the answer but prepared to go on a limb and have a PUNT:
Review 2 weeks and Coaching poisition formally vacated
New Coach Appointed prior to end of August

REDS to win Super Rigby 2016

 

[Scrubber2050]

Call up for Benny lucas?

Should never have been let go

 

[Gnostic]

You're so caught up in your dislike of him that you cannot see that paying an extra $250k is worth if it you get $500k extra in attendance and a loss of you end up with $500k less.

The Reds or ARU should pay it (if it's even true) if they see commercial benefit in Quade Cooper. Maybe they don't. But the decision not to should be made based on them not seeing benefit, not a stupid principle and cutting off your nose to spite your face.

They certainly saw value in K Hunt and forked out plenty for an unproven person with limited standing the the game. I understand bringing in outside fans from AFL and league and the like, but he never generated the interest and following the QC (Quade Cooper) has. I also find the whole Coke saga a fine irony in the Cooper affair given how he was made VC and used as a primary marketing tool only to have to be dropped from that for drug use. A fine example, role model and marketing image as opposed to a bloke who had given significant loyalty and time to Qld Rugby even whe he had cause and motivation to leave Australia after his row with Deans/JON/ARU.

The QRU secretly bought a copy of the NSWRU handbook on how to generally turn a membership against the organisation on all levels.

 

[RedsHappy]

Btw: anyone here taking the 'QC (Quade Cooper) has underperformed' line should go back and look at Sully's (I'm sure it was him!) essay on GAGR analysing the variance in the Reds w-l % when QC (Quade Cooper) plays, vs when he did not (via injury typically). The difference was clear and stark - QC (Quade Cooper) delivers a measurable, significant improvement in the Reds' win rate when fit. OK, he's suffered from injuries 2012-15, but so, just for a comparative example, has D Carter. A good RU supports its very best players through all this.

I would argue that every imaginable factual analysis would show that QC (Quade Cooper) has been the Reds MVP over the 2009-2014 period.

That's before we add in his obvious Suncorp crowd-pulling power and the major economic gains from his style of play and contribution to many great Reds victories.

Next, if the QRU had concluded that negotiations with QC (Quade Cooper) had to end, it could have announced that state of being so much more constructively and decently vs the tawdry, one-sided, petty blame sheet it put out, nastily listing all of QC (Quade Cooper)'s injury periods at the end as if that was the right final coda to justify the announcement in some indirect, mean-spirited fucking manner.

Here's the alternative, in outline:

"The QRU announces with much regret that it has been unable to agree contractual terms with QC (Quade Cooper) for the 2016 and later seasons.

"Both parties worked tirelessly in an attempt to find the right mutual balance for Quade's future with the QRU and with good faith shown throughout by both parties. Both parties wanted an outcome good for Quade and good for QLD rugby, but on this occasion, it simply could not be found.

"No one is at fault here, we just could not achieve the right contractual solution at this time and in these circumstances.

"Quade Cooper's great loyalty to QLD rugby and the Reds cannot ever be questioned. He has given enormously to our rugby programs at all levels and has been a huge contributor to the Reds recent on-field successes, and to the Reds as a prominent, respected sporting team in the minds of all QLD rugby fans.

"The QRU has nothing but gratitude for Quade's time with the QRU and have nothing but the best of good wishes for his future. Just as importantly, he will always be welcomed back to Ballymore at any time and, hopefully, to one day play again for our Reds."

That the QRU chose not to announce as above, speaks volumes re their demonstrated executive culture, 2015 version, and incompetence and self-satisfied arrogance in dealing with their (dwindling) fan base. Let's recall that, in defending the indefensible, namely their HC Graham, we fans have endured endless positive leaks and media statements regarding his 'excellent commitment' coupled with the vast array of QRU excuses and get-outs offered up to explain his routine on-field disasters.

They can find that unjustified, cloying generosity and continuing indulgence for a manifestly failed coach, but not for one of their greatest ever players and greatest ever gate and sponsor money spinners.

 

[dru]

I suppose the question is how long have negotiations been taking place ?

As I have said before IMO QC (Quade Cooper) was holding out until the end of the year for his own reasons. Maybe the QRU had already placed a expiry date on the offer ??

The QRU obviously wanted certainty ASAP - they got it

Now, the coach

Scrubber you seem to be missing the corporate petulance here.

OK, let's presume the QRU feel that QC (Quade Cooper) is past his prime. Let's presume that his management came across as a bunch of doofus that deserved a good public kicking. Let's presume that behind the scenes QC (Quade Cooper) was doing the same.

Even in that world, an intelligent QRU would understand that in their marketplace, there will be a substantive fan base that will back Quade irrespective of how much the individuals at the QRU want to make a public statement such as the one they have.

It's a basic PR fail of massive proportions.

 

[USARugger]

We have come to the difficult decision that the investment we have made previously and were prepared to continue to make has not been recognised, particularly when taking into account our commitment to him over a very long period of time.

Eat my fucking shorts Carmichael, you pussy.

Your castle made of sand has been crumbling at your feet for over a year and you have the audacity to say shit like this. How about the long-term investment all of the fans have made in your organization?

This is fucked.

 

[fatprop]

Looks like a simple case of Quade wanting more than the Reds can pony up.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I disagree.

It sounds a lot like JOC (James O'Connor)'s last negotiations with the Force. They eventually said they couldn't give him what he wanted, and outlined what that was. Public sentiment was strongly behind the Force and against JOC (James O'Connor).

The QRU on the other hand have been silent on what these unrealistic demands are so far? Why? My thought is because they aren't so unrealistic, and the public knowing what they are can only drive the public against the QRU further.

On the other side in about 18 hours not a single word has come out from Quade against them. Compare this to when the Rebels ended negotiations from JOC (James O'Connor), harsh words quickly came out through twitter from his GF.

 

[TOCC]

Yet still no word from the ARU....
Perhaps he intends to plays 7's in 2016?

Regardless of announcements and media releases like this, it's never over till the fat lady sings.

 

[No4918]

Yet still no word from the ARU..
Perhaps he intends to plays 7's in 2016?

Regardless of announcements and media releases like this, it's never over till the fat lady sings.

Let it go, let it go, Can't hold it back anymore, let it go, let it goooooo.......................

 

[TOCC]

I know it's frustrating but a decision was needed, the QRU can't make an offer to Thomson until they know whether they need to use that foreign marquee spot for Quade's replacement, until they know what's happening with Thomson they can't lock away other back row positions like Lolo, Browning and Shatz. Not to mention a sizeable chunk of salary cap that could be used to recruit/retain players in other positions.

I remember back in 2005? when Wendell was in drawn out negotiations with the Reds, they had to sit on making an offer to Digby Ioane who eventually signed with the Force. In the end Wendell signed with NSW and the Reds were left with no Wendell and no Digby.


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[RedsHappy]

I know it's frustrating but a decision was needed, the QRU can't make an offer to Thomson until they know whether they need to use that foreign marquee spot for Quade's replacement, until they know what's happening with Thomson they can't lock away other back row positions like Lolo, Browning and Shatz. Not to mention a sizeable chunk of salary cap that could be used to recruit/retain players in other positions.

I remember back in 2005? when Wendell was in drawn out negotiations with the Reds, they had to sit on making an offer to Digby Ioane who eventually signed with the Force. In the end Wendell signed with NSW and the Reds were left with no Wendell and no Digby.

So even though the 2015 S15 season's not over yet and the 2016 S18 start is fully 7+ months away, you know for certain do you that 'a decision was needed' re the QC (Quade Cooper) negotiations so that all the many and varied scenarios you note re other named and potential players could all be hurriedly concluded?

Out of interest, how do you come to have this 'insider' certainty over so many intrinsically private and complex player contracting variables?

 

[A mutterer]

I know it's frustrating but a decision was needed, the QRU can't make an offer to Thomson until they know whether they need to use that foreign marquee spot for Quade's replacement, until they know what's happening with Thomson they can't lock away other back row positions like Lolo, Browning and Shatz. Not to mention a sizeable chunk of salary cap that could be used to recruit/retain players in other positions.

I remember back in 2005? when Wendell was in drawn out negotiations with the Reds, they had to sit on making an offer to Digby Ioane who eventually signed with the Force. In the end Wendell signed with NSW and the Reds were left with no Wendell and no Digby.


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i can't really see a foreign marquee being a good solution.

 

[dru]

TOCC, making a decision is fine (but bizarre that THIS decision has been pushed in a way that HC hasn't). The problem is all about the petulant delivery. If QC (Quade Cooper) responds in anything like this manner, just watch the haters.

Carmichael must go.

 

[razorblunt]

Call up for Benny lucas?

He's been playing Top 14 for Montpellier over in France, coached by Jake White I believe. I'm 95% certain he resigned for next year, looks to have been loving it. So unfortunately I doubt we could nab him back, and given the way the Reds treated him if I was him I wouldn't really want to return

 

[fatprop]

So even though the 2015 S15 season's not over yet and the 2016 S18 start is fully 7+ months away, you know for certain do you that 'a decision was needed' re the QC (Quade Cooper) negotiations so that all the many and varied scenarios you note re other named and potential players could all be hurriedly concluded?

So what should they do?

Wait on the hope that a player who has signed a big overseas contract will change is mind? Come on ..............

Just sign a decent coach (a far more important issue than the 10) let him redevelop the culture and build a team for the future

Units are signing now, the best thing the Reds can do is move on and plan for the future, the 10 at the under 20s looked good as does unit playing for Manly from last years.

Pick a couple, back your systems, move on

 

[Scoey]

Pick a couple, back your systems, move on

We have 'systems' at the Reds? What are these systems you speak of?

 

[Train Without a Station]

So what should they do?

Wait on the hope that a player who has signed a big overseas contract will change is mind? Come on ......

Considering they haven't announced a signing of a 10, I'd wager that that waiting would have changed nothing right now.

I don't understand this view that negotiations with Quade are precluding them from negotiating with a replacement.