Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
so did Quade
Reds 2015
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so did Quade
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TOCC
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Quade has always been the undercard, SBW has been the main event and thus he would have earned significantly more.. But thats neither here nor there, of course money is involved, broadcasters want to broadcast and businesses want to get their product involved, they are after-all professional athletes are they not?
Anyway given the tangents this has gone on it seems like a pointless topic, so back to the Reds.. Glad to see Holmes back scrummaging, that was probably the biggest weakness in the squad if he was ruled out injured, and my be the reason that the Reds didn't sign another THP as we thought they would.
Anyway given the tangents this has gone on it seems like a pointless topic, so back to the Reds.. Glad to see Holmes back scrummaging, that was probably the biggest weakness in the squad if he was ruled out injured, and my be the reason that the Reds didn't sign another THP as we thought they would.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Agree TOCC until the next issue arises - probably won't be long
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Would be fairly positive Carmichael would have negotiated very hard to get JOC (James O'Connor)
James wanted to return to Aussie for a chance of RWC selection and the Reds were the ONLY option available. Big money only comes when there is more than 1 option. IMO ge is an excellant value-for-money player- short leash for sure
James will give "penetration" and go-forward to an already very good back line
Go the Reds
James wanted to return to Aussie for a chance of RWC selection and the Reds were the ONLY option available. Big money only comes when there is more than 1 option. IMO ge is an excellant value-for-money player- short leash for sure
James will give "penetration" and go-forward to an already very good back line
Go the Reds
mxyzptlk
Colin Windon (37)
(Apologies in advance for the non-reds-specific tangent)
SBW has fought one experienced fighter, Francois Botha. He didn't get belted, but it was not a good fight.
When you're talking boxing, experience often also means little tricks that aren't too legal, but you can get away with when the ref is on the wrong side of the clinch (there's nobody better at this than Bernard Hopkins). In the SBW fight, Botha used his experience very well -- lots of stepping on feet and then taking shots to the back of SBW's head, often with two fists at the same time (what Botha called his "bull horns"). Williams looked lost, and only got through that fight on his athleticism and the missing final two rounds. But he got through and got the win.
No telling what would have happened if the last two rounds had been fought. SBW had some moments in the later rounds, and his conditioning showed -- he may have been able to swarm and swamp a slowing Botha with punches. I'm still not clear on if Botha was actually advised that the fight would be 10 instead of 12' Botha claims he was always under the impression it was 12 rounds, but others say the Botha camp was informed more than once before the fight. But no matter, because the experienced fighter was also popped for a banned stimulant in the pre-fight drug test, so he lost either way.
But he really messed SBW up in that fight, and Williams looked shaken after the final bell. Shortly after he announced that he was stepping away from boxing for a while, and it's been over a year since he's been in the ring -- not the way to develop experience (but he's an athlete and rugby player that boxes, not a boxer).
Personally I preferred what Joseph Parker did to Botha. If you want to see a good southern hemisphere heavyweight, he's the one to watch.
SBW has fought one experienced fighter, Francois Botha. He didn't get belted, but it was not a good fight.
When you're talking boxing, experience often also means little tricks that aren't too legal, but you can get away with when the ref is on the wrong side of the clinch (there's nobody better at this than Bernard Hopkins). In the SBW fight, Botha used his experience very well -- lots of stepping on feet and then taking shots to the back of SBW's head, often with two fists at the same time (what Botha called his "bull horns"). Williams looked lost, and only got through that fight on his athleticism and the missing final two rounds. But he got through and got the win.
No telling what would have happened if the last two rounds had been fought. SBW had some moments in the later rounds, and his conditioning showed -- he may have been able to swarm and swamp a slowing Botha with punches. I'm still not clear on if Botha was actually advised that the fight would be 10 instead of 12' Botha claims he was always under the impression it was 12 rounds, but others say the Botha camp was informed more than once before the fight. But no matter, because the experienced fighter was also popped for a banned stimulant in the pre-fight drug test, so he lost either way.
But he really messed SBW up in that fight, and Williams looked shaken after the final bell. Shortly after he announced that he was stepping away from boxing for a while, and it's been over a year since he's been in the ring -- not the way to develop experience (but he's an athlete and rugby player that boxes, not a boxer).
Personally I preferred what Joseph Parker did to Botha. If you want to see a good southern hemisphere heavyweight, he's the one to watch.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
I think "experience" can be misconstrued with talent
SBW is an incredibly talented athlete but
Old boxers always end up losing eventually.
I might be approaching 50 and a shithouse boxer but I would back myself 100 per cent against ANY 95 year old bloke in the world - even with all of his experience
SBW is an incredibly talented athlete but
Old boxers always end up losing eventually.
I might be approaching 50 and a shithouse boxer but I would back myself 100 per cent against ANY 95 year old bloke in the world - even with all of his experience
mxyzptlk
Colin Windon (37)
Power is the last thing to go. Obviously.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
@mxyzptlk
Still not much to talk about this far out from Super Rugby, thought your post was great and thoroughly enjoyed the insight. Boxing has always fascinated me but I think a mixture of no experience with the sport and a bit of ADD have made it hard for me to actually watch much other than the "greats".
MMA was always much more entertaining for me personally because of my wrestling background and the spot of Muay Thai and BJJ I did before I stopped with combat sports.
@Scrubber2050
If anything, heavyweight champs in particular have gotten older on average since the dawn of the modern era. There's just so much technique to the sport and such a huge mental aspect, and with relatively little stress on the lower limbs (which is what usually leads to players in sports like Rugby/Gridiron retiring relatively young on average).
Holyfield won his last title at 37, same with Maskaev. Foreman was 47 when he won his final title - fighting a 26 year old. Klitschko was 37 or 38 when he won his last title, etc.
If there are guys winning world championships at close to 40 years old or above, I'd put safe money on a geriatric boxer whooping my young ass pretty badly if it was a straight up boxing match.
If not, I'd just 5-point throw him and break his hip.
Still not much to talk about this far out from Super Rugby, thought your post was great and thoroughly enjoyed the insight. Boxing has always fascinated me but I think a mixture of no experience with the sport and a bit of ADD have made it hard for me to actually watch much other than the "greats".
MMA was always much more entertaining for me personally because of my wrestling background and the spot of Muay Thai and BJJ I did before I stopped with combat sports.
@Scrubber2050
If anything, heavyweight champs in particular have gotten older on average since the dawn of the modern era. There's just so much technique to the sport and such a huge mental aspect, and with relatively little stress on the lower limbs (which is what usually leads to players in sports like Rugby/Gridiron retiring relatively young on average).
Holyfield won his last title at 37, same with Maskaev. Foreman was 47 when he won his final title - fighting a 26 year old. Klitschko was 37 or 38 when he won his last title, etc.
If there are guys winning world championships at close to 40 years old or above, I'd put safe money on a geriatric boxer whooping my young ass pretty badly if it was a straight up boxing match.
If not, I'd just 5-point throw him and break his hip.
Boxing is mostly about technique, to hit with power through a defense and not get hit yourself
A good boxer would only have to hit me once and my head would be hitting the ground, in a previous life helping remove people from a pub in London I did learn that a chair or metal stool was a very good equaliser
mxyzptlk
Colin Windon (37)
Hey hey, another Yank doing the combat sports. Where'd you wrestle? I was in the Upper Midwest -- wrestled up into college, did some judo and a little BJJ before my last knee surgery, and my dad and his friends boxed. So I grew up around this stuff. Highlight of my career: Once took down Tom Brands while drilling at a camp at Iowa, while Brands was still competing. Once. It didn't happen again. I paid for that insubordination.
Agreed, MMA is generally more entertaining to me as well, mainly from the grappling background. But it's always interesting to me to see how wrestlers try to figure out how to use striking to set up takedowns -- Rashad Evans was really good at that. From what I can tell, a lot of rugby players train some boxing and a little MMA, but they tend to follow MMA more than boxing. I remember the Blues separating into groups for pre-season training and naming their groups after MMA fighters.
Boxing takes some patience, and it helps if you have someone showing you what to look for (there's so much involved in just foot position). If you ever want to see some real snappy, quick and technical boxing, check out the World Series of Boxing. It's a mix of amateur and professional, kind of a stepping-stone between the two ranks -- amateurs compete in a pro-like competition format and get a stipend, but retain amateur status. The way it works is there are teams from different countries, and they compete in meets, like wrestling meets. Each fight is 5 three-minute rounds with no headgear, but because these are amateurs, there's a lot more focus on technique than on power and KO's. Not a lot of names, but some very good fights, and many are on YouTube. They also do a fighter exchange, so each country can have one or two fighters from a different country. The idea behind that is to get boxers more experience in different environments and provides some stylistic change-ups.
I don't watch it regularly, but it might be a great start for people who get a little zoned out waiting for the pros to unload in a fight.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Mate the best wrestlers in the world were Mario Milano, Killer Karl Cox (brainbuster)(, Brute Bernard ( just a fucking animal), Larry O'Day, Mark Lewin (the sleeper hold) Karl Kowolski (Claw Hold) - aaaah, the memories
mxyzptlk
Colin Windon (37)
I was just repeating an old saw in boxing circles. As a fighter ages, their technique may degrade because of weakened conditioning, but the last thing they lose is their power (if they had it to begin with).
But if you're sizing up some yutz on the street, conditioning isn't playing a huge role on where you land that hook.
Isn't there still a ton of boxing going on in England? I understand boxing was still taught in PE classes until about a decade ago, and there's still boxing gyms within a short distance of any neighborhood. You don't really get that in the U.S. anymore -- not sure about Australia.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
So, what is the starting team we are looking at?
1 Slipper
2, Saia/Hanson - who knows
3. Greg Holmes
4. Simmons
5. Horwill - his performances may leave door open - "blooding" for 2016 and all of that
6. Adam Thomson
7. Liam Gill
8. Jake Shatz
9. Genia - but he better come out of the blocks quickly
10. Quade Cooper
11. JOC (James O'Connor)
12, ????
13, ????
14. Turner - not JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ please
15, Hunt
1 Slipper
2, Saia/Hanson - who knows
3. Greg Holmes
4. Simmons
5. Horwill - his performances may leave door open - "blooding" for 2016 and all of that
6. Adam Thomson
7. Liam Gill
8. Jake Shatz
9. Genia - but he better come out of the blocks quickly
10. Quade Cooper
11. JOC (James O'Connor)
12, ????
13, ????
14. Turner - not JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ please
15, Hunt
mxyzptlk
Colin Windon (37)
Hey, the Iron Sheik had actual Olympic-level greco-roman experience before going pro, long before Kurt Angle tried to turn his amateur experience into entertainment. With all that greco experience, the Iron Sheik could have played rugby league.
The less said about Brock Lesnar, the better. I watched him as an amateur in college; heavyweight was on a downturn when he competed, and the only reason he won his one NCAA title was because the Iowa guy he beat in double-overtime made a stupidly stupid decision in the second period of the last overtime that led to Lesnar's escape and 1-point victory. GAH! that match still galls me. Lesnar's best asset was his strength, and he relied on that rather than developing technique, which left him limited (he had a blast double, he could defensively block down shots taken square, and he could generally power himself up from the mat, but he was susceptible to angles and speed). That didn't seem to change much in MMA. His muscle was enough to take care of most in the NCAA division at that time, but when he got up against a clever wrestler with good technique, like Stephen Neal, he never really threatened. (Neal went on to wrestle freestyle for the U.S and then play guard for the Patriots in the NFL, despite not playing football in college. He ended up winning two Super Bowls with them.)
Wilson
Tim Horan (67)
Not sure when Thomson arrives from Japan but he might be on the bench the first few rounds if he hasn't had time to adjust, will probably be the starting 6 fairly soon though. I think the centres will be tapuai and kerevi, hopefully in that order. CFS might pip turner for the wing, though his versatility may leave him on the bench.
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