Reds 2014

[The Red Baron]

I really don't get the hate on for Mike Harris. Some of you guys seem to be disappointed that he isn't a world beater.

Harris is a pretty solid super player, and would fulfill a similar role to what Lance is doing for the Reds now. There are a number of options the Reds will have in the backline - Harris is one of them. But that's ok, lets just close ourselves off to a potential option because we have preconceptions.

I also don't get the fascination with trying to find an overseas player or a player from another franchise, either in the backs or the pack, when it really isn't warranted. I don't think chasing a guy from overseas or another team 'because we can' is the right way to go.

If I seem irritable tonight, it is because I am. A week with the flu will do that to you.

 

[USARugger]

I don't hate him but we have been distinctly lacking a level of dynamism in the backs this year that we will need if we want a shot at the title. Replacing an average ball player at 15 with another average ball player at 15 is not going to help fix this in any way.

I don't get the near dogmatic adherence to growing all of your own talent. In a professional sporting world it not only is impossible to do so and remain at the top, but naive and foolhardy to think that it isn't.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

thierry dusautoir

One clip from a hugely lopsided game doesn't magically remove the times Harris got burnt for pace last year or give us a viable attacking option at 15 who can join the line at pace. He also has a weak pass off his left side. Not okay if he's supposed to be the secondary playmaker at 15.

B. Lucas is much faster. He played Aussie 7s, remember?

And you do realize we can recruit from outside of the Reds, right? That was sort of where this conversation began.

Davies has been playing really well this year aside from a few brain explosions. Shipperley has surely fallen a couple notches on the depth chart. I think Davies has 14 sewed up.

The reds rarely ever sign a player from outside their systems and if they do its only some young buck who they wish to develop or a journeymen to fill out the squad.

I can't ever really remember harris being 'burnt' that badly, i actually have always thought his defence to be quite good. But agree to disagree. I am with The Red Baron don't get the hate.

just because a player plays 7's does not make them a pace machine look at gill and matt lucas

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I don't hate him but we have been distinctly lacking a level of dynamism in the backs this year that we will need if we want a shot at the title. Replacing an average ball player at 15 with another average ball player at 15 is not going to help fix this in any way.

I don't get the near dogmatic adherence to growing all of your own talent. In a professional sporting world it not only is impossible to do so and remain at the top, but naive and foolhardy to think that it isn't.

Tell that to the crusaders

 

[USARugger]

Tell that to the crusaders

The Crusaders who have slipped from being the dominant NZ franchise to playing 2nd fiddle to the Chiefs and who are going to be fighting tooth and nail for a Wildcard spot against a Blues team that won 4 games last year?

Thanks for proving my point?

Not to mention Union being the dominant sport in NZ and their talent acquisition and development capabilities directly reflecting this.

The reds rarely ever sign a player from outside their systems and if they do its only some young buck who they wish to develop or a journeymen to fill out the squad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

 

[sootyanddave]

The Crusaders who have slipped from being the dominant NZ franchise to playing 2nd fiddle to the Chiefs and who are going to be fighting tooth and nail for a Wildcard spot against a Blues team that won 4 games last year?

Thanks for proving my point?

Not to mention Union being the dominant sport in NZ and their talent acquisition and development capabilities directly reflecting this.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

I don't think that proves any point.
Unless your point is the Crusaders are in a decline, they can never recover from unless they recruit from the outside.
What relevance does the Blues performance LAST year,have to do with the Crusaders recruitment philosophy?
BTW the Saders have rested Richie & Carter, up until last week.
How many franchises have the depth to allow that?

 

[USARugger]

Their near sole reliance on home-grown talent has seen them fall in competitiveness. The Blues have a decent coach now and suddenly the Crusaders don't look nearly as dominant as they did before. The decline was masked last year by the other franchises (outside of the Chiefs) not playing well.

Whether they will recover in a few seasons or not is a moot point. For a franchise to stay competitive, and stay on top in a professional sports market there must be active, effective and intelligent recruiting from outside of the franchise. It only takes a few bad seasons (or one if you're the Waratahs) to significantly impact the financial bottom line of a franchise. Which then hinders future recruiting amongst dozens of other things. Dynastic sports franchises across the globe are constantly scouting for and acquiring talent outside of their own developmental structures.

 

[Penguin]

Tell that to the crusaders

The Cru aren't a good example, they poach the hell out of Otago.

 

[youngone]

I don't hate him but we have been distinctly lacking a level of dynamism in the backs this year that we will need if we want a shot at the title.

Backline from 2011 Final:

15. Jono Lance, 14. Rod Davies, 13. Anthony Fainga'a, 12. Ben Tapuai, 11. Digby Ioane, 10. Quade Cooper, 9. Will Genia (http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/super-final-preview-reds-v-crusaders/)

Bar Tapuai it's essentially been the same/pretty close lately...

What do you mean by a lack of dynamism?

 

[Forcefield]

Given how well Lealiifano and Godwin are doing at 12, and that our only real option for 13 for the Wallabies is AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), why not have Ant F at 12, Tapuai at 13 and CFS on the wing. Or the U20s.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

The Cru aren't a good example, they poach the hell out of Otago.

Their juniors sometimes yes but then they develop them they rarely go out and sign a 25 year old. They get them young and mould them, and for the most part they take them from their ITM cup side.

Look at this years recruitment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2012–13_Super_Rugby_transfers#Crusaders

USARugger if your saying that the fact that the crusaders are not dominating, equals that they are unsuccesfull then your peceptions of success are going to cause you a lot of heart break over your lifetime.

the crusaders a notroious slow starters to the comp and every year make finals footy, most teams would consider this in itself to be a success. Since 2002 they haven't ever finished lower than 4th, have won 4 grand finals and lost 3.

I think people to often compare succes with dominance and premierships, but if this is the case then 14 teams will have to accept failure regardless of anythign else that happens. Which sound spretty silly to me

 

[The Red Baron]

To add a little more to thierry dusautoir, I would have the Crusaders as the form team in the comp right about now. Seems like they are starting to fire at just the right time.

 

[youngone]

To add a little more to thierry dusautoir, I would have the Crusaders as the form team in the comp right about now. Seems like they are starting to fire at just the right time.

True... but I also see them like the Reds were last year. Had the cattle, just not all out there at the same time, and when they finally did, it was too little too late.

 

[tranquility]

I don't get the near dogmatic adherence to growing all of your own talent. In a professional sporting world it not only is impossible to do so and remain at the top, but naive and foolhardy to think that it isn't.

I wouldn't expect you to.
Australia is a very tribal place, and big part of all successful QLD rugby teams (Broncos included) has been developing from within. It's how we keep good young players from defecting to other states, because first and foremost they want to play for QLD. Have you ever made it out here? If not, you should go and watch some GPS high school rugby, it's one of the best rugby breeding grounds on the planet.

 

[Sully]

I wouldn't expect you to.
Australia is a very tribal place, and big part of all successful QLD rugby teams (Broncos included) has been developing from within. It's how we keep good young players from defecting to other states, because first and foremost they want to play for QLD. Have you ever made it out here? If not, you should go and watch some GPS high school rugby, it's one of the best rugby breeding grounds on the planet.

He's in Brisbane right now.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

 

[USARugger]

I wouldn't expect you to.
Australia is a very tribal place, and big part of all successful QLD rugby teams (Broncos included) has been developing from within. It's how we keep good young players from defecting to other states, because first and foremost they want to play for QLD. Have you ever made it out here? If not, you should go and watch some GPS high school rugby, it's one of the best rugby breeding grounds on the planet.

I'm out here right now and have spent most of the last few days at Churchie actually.

 

[jay-c]

Their near sole reliance on home-grown talent

their development of players in unchallenged but i dunno how accurate it is to suggest they are all from christchurch
jus a few
dagg highlanders
donnelly highlanders
flynn born in Invercargill (not sure where hes played senior his rugby)
fruen Wellington
guildford hurricanes
marshall born in auckland (not sure where hes played senior his rugby)

 

[tranquility]

I'm out here right now and have spent most of the last few days at Churchie actually.

Perfect place to start...
Good people in the blue and the grey.

 

[jauzy19]

Mitchell Felsman has signed for french club Agen. Do you know where he was in late 2012 and 2013 ?

 

[Bowside]

Mitchell Felsman has signed for french club Agen. Do you know where he was in late 2012 and 2013 ?

He was in the reds academy in 2011-2012 but he got an injury and got cut for 2013. Since then he has been playing for the Brothers club in Brisbane, scored a heap of tries.

He probably would have been picked up by one of the super rugby teams for 2014 if he stayed around.