Reds 2014

[Ignoto]

Quirk had an average game defensively last game, fell off a few tackles he should have stuck. It maybe time to get some rotation for Schatz and Quirk, those guys have been working overtime since the start of last season.

Agree - I think he may have copped a head knock towards the start of the second half before he got pulled. He got smashed in a tackle and looked groggy after getting up and almost a deer in headlights while packing down the scrum.

After that 30 minute cameo, I'd happily give Curtis a go, hopefully it'll fire up red dog (the human one) as he hasn't looked as lethal as he did against the tahs last year!

 

[suckerforred]

Speaking of this years game plan.... Is anyone else getting frustrated with the apparent 'same side, same side, same side, oh f*ck there's the touch line' plan?

There have been a few times this season where if there had been a change in direction of the play then metres could have been made but they have continued to move the ball the same direction accross the field. I know that eventually you get to the point where you have the whole field width to play with but there seems to be exactly zero questions being asked of the defense.

To me this must be a directive from the coach but is it just me and is not really as bad as I see it?

 

[Ignoto]

To me this must be a directive from the coach but is it just me and is not really as bad as I see it?

The Reds are probably the third team I've seen to "adopt" this game plan on running side ways and running out of room. The 2009 Wallabies did it, the 2010-2012 Force did it and now the 2014 Reds are doing it.

It'd be nice if the Reds (and all Australian super teams) utilized the expertise of Jim McKay. Even when we had the "baby" Reds in 2009/2010 with Moody you could see the attack had purpose and surprise to it. Can't say that now!

 

[USARugger]

The 2009 Wallabies did it,

I believe I get what you're pointing at, but the numbers don't really support your notion entirely.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/the-statistical-case-for-a-wallabies-attack-coach/

 

[Scoey]

Apparently the Bulldogs have torn up Fifita's contract after he publicly announced that he wished he switched to Union.
If we still have that one remaining squad spot, he would make a cracking back rower. I reckon he bend and break plenty of lines!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gel]

Regarding the attacking pattern - I am not too certain it is all that way. I thought he did well against the sharks (other than DROPPING THE BLOODY BALL) and also the lions (when we were allowed to play some rugby).

But it is definitely possible to over coach a team (and thereby cease any spontaneity out of ther play). I think the English RU team were clearly over coached a couple if years ago.

I don't know yet if we are over coached or not.

Our handling ha been pretty poor and a massive amount of our passing has been forward (or more accurately the support player is too flat), so perhaps there has been a shift to a simple structure for now? I dunno.

One thing I did notice this last weekend though is that in the 4 man passing drill prior to the game, all the runners were deep and the passes clearly a long way back. This is different to what I have seen for a number of YEARS now. When we have run that drill in the past before every game, the reds have always done this drill irritatingly flat (I.e you just know they are going to be throwing forward passes around once the game starts).

I think that's a pretty good sign, particularly since it has been a bit of a worry for a long while now.

Fafita will go to the tahs.

 

[emuarse]

It's Scoey not TOCC.
The discussion started over whether Toua would get a gig next year which is entirely relevant as it is based on his form this year. Someone suggested O'Connor as a replacement which is how we ended up where we are.
Yes we could start a Reds 2015 thread but that would seem more pointless at this juncture than having a bit of a chat about it in this thread.
If it's pointless chat you're trying to avoid though, we should probably wrap this little exchange up I reckon and get back to talking Reds eh? ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe we could start a JOC2015 thread - but I'm already over it - too much hypothesis

 

[Tip]

Season 2014 looks the same as 2012 & 2013 to me
Reds hindered by ill discipline and an over zealous Genia who has forgotten what made him the best halfback in the world in 2010-11 - his running game. He's not threatening with the ball in hand 1 or 2 players off the ruck and rarely engages defenders. He's normally overplaying his hand by kicking away possession.

 

[RugbyReg]

Season 2014 looks the same as 2012 & 2013 to me
Reds hindered by ill discipline and an over zealous Genia who has forgotten what made him the best halfback in the world in 2010-11 - his running game. He's not threatening with the ball in hand 1 or 2 players off the ruck and rarely engages defenders. He's normally overplaying his hand by kicking away possession.

I really don't think you're watching games are you? In his last match he kicked 14 times and ran 14 times. I thought he sniped well on the weekend, just didn't get the breaks. His kicking game, we all agree, is not 100% on and needs to be curtailed. But I don't think you can fault his running game.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Genia probably spoilt us in 2011 - plenty of good snipes and breaks. How many breaks did he make from his 14 runs

 

[TOCC]

The problem is simple, the reds lateral movement isn't new, it's a style they and other teams have played for years, the issue in 2013 and again this year is the lack of penetrative runners.. Higgers was massive in this department, so was Digby and Samo. Reds aren't bending the line often enough in the forwards or backs.

 

[Tangawizi]

The problem is simple, the reds lateral movement isn't new, it's a style they and other teams have played for years, the issue in 2013 and again this year is the lack of penetrative runners.. Higgers was massive in this department, so was Digby and Samo. Reds aren't bending the line often enough in the forwards or backs.

I wonder if they've lost a bit of belief that they'll prevail in the end too.

There were a fair number of games back in 2011 that were super tight but somehow the Reds jagged a win (Tahs @Suncorp, Force in Perth, Crusaders x 2).
But that isn't happening right now.

Partly due to Stuart Berry but they were never in the contest against the Tahs or Sharks.

2 more good wins at home are needed to build a bit of confidence back. That & for Quirk & Schatz to start bashing blokes.

 

[Tip]

One hame doesn't buck the trend. Genia hasn't made a linebreak this year.
There hasn't been a shortage of aimless kicks though.

 

[USARugger]

Being a pedantic fuck but Genia had a clean break against the Sharks.

Not so pedantic - Genia has a .68:1 Run-to-Kick ratio right now while Nic White has a .72:1 ratio. So, is Genia really kicking the ball that much?

He has 18 more kicks than White but he's also run the ball 11 more times as well.

His kicking has been poor at times and I think this is creating a somewhat exaggerated perception surrounding the amount that he is kicking, which isn't really on either side of what seems to be the median range, but more or less dead in the middle.

It's no surprise, a box kick like that absolute disaster against the Cheetahs is a lot easier to remember than Will trying to snipe and getting smothered by two front row forwards.

 

[emuarse]

Ginea has to strategically do attempts at line breaks when an opportunity presents itself. If he does it too often then he shows his hand.
The defence is also more aware of him now than in 2011.
He has to vary his game, and that includes kicks.
Some of the criticism should perhaps also be placed on the flankers who are not doing enough to protect him. And this in turn might be due to the fact that they have to keep their shoulders to the grindstone (scrum) owing to its lighter weight,

 

[No4918]

The Reds pack outweighed the Stromers and has a couple of other sides as well. Weight differences between most teams will play less part than technique in effecting the loosies staying on the scrum.

The scrum in general is a poor indicator of Genia's form. Scrum feeds will present a fraction of the number of rucks he attends. Then i am not sure that being protected is the issue. It would seem as with a lot of the other backline issues that a lack of options and players in motion are making it easier for defences to read where a play is headed. In years past with a fit Ioane hovering behind him ready to take a short pass and holding a defender would have allowed him to slip through half gaps. They just aren't there at the moment.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Isdn't the Reds srum one of the most successful in the whole competition. Fot the scrum to be an excuse for Will's lack of sniping, running and multitude of shitty box kicks is a joke.

He just needs to perform himself without every excuse under the sun. Every other player has to deal with criticism if performances are below par. If not move over and give another bloke his shot.

 

[Troy]

Just to change tack ever so slightly, I was listeneing to a podcast this morning where they mentioned an idea to compete with players moving OS for the $.

If our Super teams aligned themselves with Japanese clubs, then a player could be contracted to both, so finish the S15 and head to JPN. That would give them a bigger contract, more cash and maybe keep players like Diggers in the country? Although he'd be off with the Wallabies so maybe not him but someone like a Hugh Pyle?

Also haven't really thought through how the NRC would affect that now with overlapping seasons?

 

[No4918]

Interesting idea. Wallabies would be ruled out obviously which reduces the incentive for OS clubs. It is the Wallabies that are most likely to go due to the money so its possible not many would take it up. Yes it will keep a few fringe players ib the country so maybe only allow players with a certian nber of caps to go so that the NRC isn't weakened.

 

[kiap]

Just to change tack ever so slightly, I was listeneing to a podcast this morning where they mentioned an idea to compete with players moving OS for the $.

Which podcast?

Got a link?