Rebels 2014

[Dave Beat]

Tex you are right it is not an easy answer, my thoughts, would the growth have a far stronger platform if it was grown with the joint effort / support of the Sydney clubs.

I agree it would be good to consolidate in the AFL states, again I think there would be greater interest and investment if it was done with a common goal - a door way that remains open.

 

[swingpass]

tex and dave

interesting discussion. the rebels board had decided that this year the rebels players would stay in melbourne and play locally throughout the super season. for a variety of reasons that didn't happen and depending on whom you listen to, it was either the fault of the rebels management or some of the sydney clubs (sydney uni in particular). the short answer is that with a few notable exceptions the rebels played very few games and in most instances no games for their "vru team"

as cat alluded to above the reasons for keeping them in melbourne are practical not really altruistic, but the positive trade off is they will play locally.
i hope this happens in 2014.

dave i agree that it should be for the super season only, unless a player specifically requests to stay on after S15 is finished. there may be some exceptions, for example, matt tink, felt it was better for the front row forwards to play in sydney or brisabane, for their development. so it may be on a case by case basis, but the baseline should be that the contracted rebels players and eps etc are based in melbourne and will play in the dewar shield during the S15 season

ps just a thought, imagine the bun fight if the ARU had a draft, selecting from the schoolboys, u20's, colts in each state.

 

[Dave Beat]

I can understand them getting game time and promoting local rugby whilst the Super comp is on, it also assist with morale and cohesion.

Post super it is great having the crew back, keeping the doors open so the Sydney Comp can support you guys and return when able would be beneficial to Australian Rugby - I hope the Rebels kick some arse next year.

Having doors that only allow one way traffic would be disappointing.

 

[Cat_A]

So it seems the situation in Sydney is different to Brisbane's then. Would you say that most Sydney clubs are happy with seeing their (and their opposition's) regular Super players for only a few weeks leading in to finals?

I ask because a common theme on the Queensland Premier Rugby thread at a certain time each year is whether it's fair that a Super player who has played maybe a handful of games with the club all year, takes the place of someone who has been there all year. (Likewise the club with no rep players who lines up against a side which has been bolstered with 6 Reds players between the rounds and the finals).

I know all clubs handle it differently, but I'm interested in how the Sydney clubs would see it, and how the Unions would handle the player transfer, and then also their eligibility for finals if they have played say, 8 games for a Melbourne club and 2 for their Sydney clubs.

(I don't know the situation in Sydney, so I'm genuinely asking here - to keep the thread on topic we may need to move this post to the clubs thread)

 

[Dave Beat]

So it seems the situation in Sydney is different to Brisbane's then. Would you say that most Sydney clubs are happy with seeing their (and their opposition's) regular Super players for only a few weeks leading in to finals?

I ask because a common theme on the Queensland Premier Rugby thread at a certain time each year is whether it's fair that a Super player who has played maybe a handful of games with the club all year, takes the place of someone who has been there all year. (Likewise the club with no rep players who lines up against a side which has been bolstered with 6 Reds players between the rounds and the finals).

I know all clubs handle it differently, but I'm interested in how the Sydney clubs would see it, and how the Unions would handle the player transfer, and then also their eligibility for finals if they have played say, 8 games for a Melbourne club and 2 for their Sydney clubs.

(I don't know the situation in Sydney, so I'm genuinely asking here - to keep the thread on topic we may need to move this post to the clubs thread)

As a supporter I'd like to see club players, and club promoting players to Super Ruby, and I'd like to see the players coming back to their Sydney club when they are not in the match day 23 - that simple.
But
Super teams have a squad, an EPS, and also a responsibility to promote and develop rugby and hopefully that means the Super teams work together with the clubs Sydney & Vic to achieve that "together" with all parties being as happy as possible.

 

[Cat_A]

Thanks for your take on it Dave Beat.

Does that mean that if Jono Lance was to play at Manly next year during Super Rugby season (if he doesn't get in the starting line up, that would mean most weeks) you'd be happy to release him once the Tahs' season was over in July or August to play for Uni in Brisbane again? And Matt Lucas could return to Sunnybank too?

That's a pretty generous offer and a sweet deal. I'd say that system would make some Brisbane clubs happy too. I'm not sure how we'd sell that system to the VRU though - they'd probably want the Rebels players to play finals in Victoria so they could leverage some publicity.

 

[Dave Beat]

Cat_A As I have said in all my commentary above - I don't have an answers.

I raised a thread a while back Australian Rugby or ARU.
Australian Rugby - I see a distinct difference between the 2, I see club rugby battling away to develop and promote the game - people volunteering there time, and effort.

ARU (Pre Pulver, because he / we haven't had time to see results yet), Well I think JON left our game in a worst state than when he arrived, and what was his payout?

I'm only a Manly supporter so can't comment about Matt running around for Manly (rapped to have him though). I don't think Tah's told him he has to play for Manly, it might have been player choice.

If you can steer Jono Manly's way no doubt the club would appreciate it. Let him know life style is great, and it's a top club with a great culture.

But back to the point I think you are trying to make - can't have everything??? Yeah I know, however I have always said it's about clubs and Super Franchises working together.

 

[KevinO]

I have to disagree with players going back to Sydney when the season is over to play rugby, these guys are contracted and moved to Melbourne to apply there trade so that's where they should play.

This really would be the best way to promote Rugby as a lot of supporters of the Rebels would not even know where there local Rugby club is located. If the players really take there 5 star pledge seriously and want to help grow the game in Melbourne than they should play for there VRU clubs.

Dave I know your a Manly supporter and it would be a few players missing from your side, but just think of how many we are keeping away from Uni.

Bryce Hegarty was playing his club Rugby with Powerhouse and managed to make a decent enough transition into Super Rugby (Needs a lot of work on his kicking) He even played when they where given the choice to play or have the week off.

 

[Cat_A]

Dave Beat - I actually agree with you. I don't think there are simple answers, and I don't think one answer fits all. I'd like to see it approached on a case by case basis, but if it were I'm sure we'd be on a different thread arguing that there is no consistency with decision-making.

There are some players who have gone over to ITM Cup instead of back to Sydney/Brisbane/wherever and I think that for them as players that is the best decision for them. I also think that if there was a player who, if returning to his club side, would be returning to 2nd or 3rd grade, there isn't much point in him going back to that club side (like I said - case by case basis).

 

[Cat_A]

Except KevinO now Bryce Hegarty is playing for GPS in Brisbane. If you could send him back to Melbourne before Saturday at 3pm that would be ace!

 

[KevinO]

Except KevinO now Bryce Hegarty is playing for GPS in Brisbane. If you could send him back to Melbourne before Saturday at 3pm that would be ace!

Not playing to well for GPS? Powerhouse play Moorabbin in a 4th v 2nd so I am sure he would start at 15 if he came down. He did not spend any time at 10 before getting a run with the Rebels as far as I can remember.

 

[Cat_A]

Unfortunately KevinO he is playing very well for GPS and my lot are taking them on at 3pm on Saturday.

 

[Dave Beat]

I have to disagree with players going back to Sydney when the season is over to play rugby, these guys are contracted and moved to Melbourne to apply there trade so that's where they should play.

This really would be the best way to promote Rugby as a lot of supporters of the Rebels would not even know where there local Rugby club is located. If the players really take there 5 star pledge seriously and want to help grow the game in Melbourne than they should play for there VRU clubs.

Dave I know your a Manly supporter and it would be a few players missing from your side, but just think of how many we are keeping away from Uni.

Bryce Hegarty was playing his club Rugby with Powerhouse and managed to make a decent enough transition into Super Rugby (Needs a lot of work on his kicking) He even played when they where given the choice to play or have the week off.

Well we'll have to disagree there, as clubs spend time and effort developing players I simply don't think it is fair you bend clubs over and jam them from behind because you can.

How about the VRU picks solely from the Vic comp and leave NSW alone??

Note; I have said Australian Rugby needs to work together, you don't seem to share that thought???

 

[Slim 293]

How about the VRU picks solely from your comp and leave NSW alone??

Note; I have said Australian Rugby needs to work together, you don't seem to share that thought.

The first comment is some kind of weird doublespeak, for surely the players would be picked from the Victoria comp if they're playing in the Victoria comp?

And the second comment is riddled with irony........

 

[KevinO]

Unfortunately KevinO he is playing very well for GPS and my lot are taking them on at 3pm on Saturday.

Oh, sorry about that. Would prefer for him to be down here. Good luck Saturday.

 

[Braveheart81]

Whatever happens, there will be a compromise in terms of where players play when they're not required for Super Rugby.

On one hand, the Rebels' players will get stronger competition if they go back to Sydney or Brisbane to play club rugby during the off season. If they do that then the Victorian comp misses out on that injection of quality players to help raise the standard and profile of local club rugby.

Maybe the answer is that by and large you let the players decide. Some of them will want to return to their regular home city whilst others might stay in Melbourne year round. A good compromise would perhaps be to have some players stay in Melbourne and others go back to Shute Shield/Premier Rugby and perhaps letting the players choose could result in a decent split.

In terms of the situation Cat_A raised regarding players like Matt Lucas and Jono Lance potentially returning to Brisbane when the Waratahs season was over, this is a tricky one. There is no discernible difference in standard between Sydney and Brisbane so you can't really make an argument that doing one or the other is good for the player's development. Again, I'd say it should be up to the individual player. It is fair for their franchise to expect them to be playing club rugby but where shouldn't really be an issue.

I can only foresee negatives for franchises if they try and force players to stay in that city after the season ends to play club rugby there. Returning to their regular home city to spend time with friends and family is surely a positive for many players and doing anything to hinder that is only likely to make it more difficult to sign players from other states.

I don't really think there is an issue where Super Rugby players come back to club rugby late in the season and bump players out of sides. I think this should happen and is part of sport. I also don't think there is the need to have a particularly arduous qualification process for rep players to be eligible for finals. If they're available they should play. They would have played other games for that club during the season if they weren't playing for the Super Rugby franchise or Wallabies.

 

[Dave Beat]

The first comment is some kind of weird doublespeak, for surely the players would be picked from the Victoria comp if they're playing in the Victoria comp?

And the second comment is riddled with irony....

Thank you for the correction, I am for working together and don't agree with the Brumbies Stance, nor that of KevinO
1. How about the Rebels pick solely from their Dewar Shield.
2. How about your Brumbies pick solely from the Dent.

Slim Franchises that are happy to look over and take Sydney's talent, should be working with the Sydney clubs to promote and improve rugby. If they are not willing to work with Sydney clubs they should only work within their local comp and spend more time nurturing that.

How many Dent / ACT Juniors played in the Super Final - I think 1 but stand to be corrected. With so much care and focus on the Dent comp why not solely pick and develop that comp.

Slim, I know our thoughts are different, so no need to respond.

 

[Dave Beat]

Braveheart.

Fair approach for Australian Rugby, well put together.

Interesting it appears the clubs are about the growth, development and promotion of players and put in the hard yards on the smell of an oily rag.
and then;
Some Franchises want to take but not work with the clubs that are possibly feeding them.

Cant see how that works.

 

[Braveheart81]

Dave Beat - it cuts both ways though. Super Rugby franchises have a vested interest in improving their local club competition. It is perfectly reasonable that they want players that they sign to play for the local clubs when possible.

I don't think it naturally follows that the Rebels wanting players to play in Melbourne or the Brumbies wanting players to play in Canberra means that they should only recruit players from those locations. At the end of the day, they're the ones offering to pay that player a full time professional salary.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave Beat - it cuts both ways though. Super Rugby franchises have a vested interest in improving their local club competition. It is perfectly reasonable that they want players that they sign to play for the local clubs when possible.

Yep agree with that to, all my dribble above acknowledges that the Franchise should use that players to develop and grow rugby. "BUT" not neglect or shut the door on where they came from - it's a relationship that needs to be managed.