Rebels 2013

[hammertimethere]

Tranq mate if you are aware of a standard of strength for 88kg athletes that I'm not of please enlighten me. I was under the impression that north of 220-230 (full depth squat mind you, not partials like Jerry was doing) was the domain of the Franks boys and co. (at least as far as rugby athletes go)
e.g

To put it further in perspective, the following is a video of an young Irish weightlifter, who competes at the absolute ELITE (like trains 12+ times per week level of elite) level in that sport, who's a similar size doing a similar weight.

Do I think JOC (James O'Connor) could do anything like that being a rugby player not a weightlifter? no not even close, something doesn't add up

 

[tranquility]

In lieu of those videos, its probably fair to say that it's an exaggerated figure, which is an odd thing for a S&C coach to be inaccurate about. I was actually more interested in his Vertical Jump figure of 85 cms, which I assume is a running vertical jump measurement. Still, if he has a ratio anywhere near the quoted numbers he is an extremely gifted bundle of fast twitch muscles fibers.

 

[en_force_er]

27 this year and NZ (7s) capped. Not a good investment imo.

Age is not the key factor in contract sport, it's about playing age. This is his first year of Super Rugby and will only be his 3rd of ITM Cup. The bloke's played less years of professional football than JOC (James O'Connor). Not to mention he's roughly the same age as Ged when we got him.

Plus, none of this is taking into account the fact that 27 is not even that old.

Tranq mate if you are aware of a standard of strength for 88kg athletes that I'm not of please enlighten me. I was under the impression that north of 220-230 (full depth squat mind you, not partials like Jerry was doing) was the domain of the Franks boys and co. (at least as far as rugby athletes go)

To put it further in perspective, the following is a video of an young Irish weightlifter, who competes at the absolute ELITE (like trains 12+ times per week level of elite) level in that sport, who's a similar size doing a similar weight.

Do I think JOC (James O'Connor) could do anything like that being a rugby player not a weightlifter? no not even close, something doesn't add up

Jerry's squad was a full squat depth-wise, plus it was a box squat. Have you ever done a box squat? They're fucking hard.

As for JOC (James O'Connor) compared to the Irish bloke, as somebody who took a year off playing recently and just lifted tin you'd be amazed how much stronger you get when all your pursuing is strength.

 

[humanbeast]

Very few rugby players could squat that, simply because they aren't just training strength with all the running and fitness training they do its just not going to happen

 

[en_force_er]

Very few rugby players could squat that, simply because they aren't just training strength with all the running and fitness training they do its just not going to happen

Yeah, a rugby player's strength peaks around 22 or 23 and from there they spend their preseasons doing injury management.

 

[hammertimethere]

In lieu of those videos, its probably fair to say that it's an exaggerated figure, which is an odd thing for a S&C coach to be inaccurate about. I was actually more interested in his Vertical Jump figure of 85 cms, which I assume is a running vertical jump measurement. Still, if he has a ratio anywhere near the quoted numbers he is an extremely gifted bundle of fast twitch muscles fibers.

Thats what I was thinking, he's either referring to a really high box squat or squat off pins or something or he's full of it. However, 85cm is a really good VJ, there were Wide receivers at the NFL combine this year jumping 85-90cm (33-35 inches). He's very gifted for speed and power clearly.

 

[qwerty51]

Phipps to NSW in 2014 but Burgess to Rebels.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[RoffsChoice]

Shame for the Rebels to lose their first Wallaby, and I don't know if I'd prefer three-years-older Burgess, but let's hope for the best.

I actually feel for Lucas here, with Barnes back he would have probably taken McKibbin's spot in the lineup. No way that will happen now.

 

[swingpass]

really cant understand the rebels thinking here. phipps has a lot of upside, burgess in the 2nd half of his career. perhaps they see stirzaker as the long term prospect being mentored by burgess.

 

[It Is Known]

Phipps hasn't never really stood out for the rebels. His defense is sound but doesn't have that spark in attack. Having said that it is quite a loss, but who knows, perhaps it's more of a combination issue with the first five.

 

[RebelYell]

Burgess will be very good, sad to see Fanga go but plenty to like about Stirzy...

 

[KevinO]

Phipps hasn't never really stood out for the rebels. His defense is sound but doesn't have that spark in attack. Having said that it is quite a loss, but who knows, perhaps it's more of a combination issue with the first five.

Never stood out? Who won Australian Super Rugby Rookie of the Year in 2011? Short term memory loss, he played a blinder against the Tahs and the Rebels have made a massive stuff up here.

Just hope the Rebels look at the Tahs squad and sign one or two of those guys who are in contract talks for next season. Benn Robinson and Ben Volavola would be my picks to try sign for 2014.

 

[kronic]

Two point of views:

Phipps:
- According to the article, the club never disclosed details, so he took it as a direct threat

Other:
- Phipps is naive to think that Burgess would replace him as #1. Kingi is believed to be heading to France next year, that leaves only Stirzaker. At the end of the day, no one should feel comfortable, there should always be competitions for spots.

 

[RoffsChoice]

One of the reasons I feel Genia has declined over his time with the Wallabies is because he knows that if he is fit, he is the starting 9 and probably won't be taken off. Phipps improved in the EOYT when Sheehan was coming on with 30 to go, or even starting ahead of him. Hopefully Chieka decides to play Lucas and Phipps for less than 80 and reward the better player with the starting spot the following week.

Speaking on Wallabies in a Rebels thread, is Vuna still looking okay to return in three weeks time?

 

[Dumbledore]

Two point of views:

Phipps:
- According to the article, the club never disclosed details, so he took it as a direct threat

Other:
- Phipps is naive to think that Burgess would replace him as #1. Kingi is believed to be heading to France next year, that leaves only Stirzaker. At the end of the day, no one should feel comfortable, there should always be competitions for spots.

Bit of truth to both of those views I'd say. Maybe the club should have been open, but Phipps shouldn't expect his position to be safe. It's very much a like-for-like swap. Phipps is a very similar player - wildly erratic pass, good cover defence, good running game - but doen't quite have the experience or spark in attack. In saying that, I have no idea what Burgess has been playing like in France.

Still think Stirzaker is the best long-term prospect. If Burgess can help develop his running game and defence then he'll have been a very good get.

 

[daz]

I have no idea what Burgess has been playing like in France.

Still think Stirzaker is the best long-term prospect. If Burgess can help develop his running game and defence then he'll have been a very good get.

Luke had a very good season last year, but has dropped off the pace a bit this season. He still has that fucking annoying sideways 2-step before he passes the ball which drives me wild.

My 2c is that Stirzaker needs a solid and experienced mentor. Phipps is still pretty green as well so it is the blind leading the blind, so to speak.

I fully agree that Stirzaker is the long term prospect and I am all for Burgess being his mentor for a year or two. Having said that, I like Phipps a lot. Top bloke and a supporters dream player as he really does engage with the fans exceptionally well. Sadly, he is just not a good starting 9.

Like most others have already noticed, our attack is toothless. That is certainly not all on Phipps's shoulders, but since he is the attacking starting point, he surely is a major contributor to our lack of bite.

 

[Dumbledore]

Cheers, daz.

I agree with the rest of your post entirely. Burgess is probably a better short-term option than Phipps, and gives Stirzaker a better mentor. Win-win really. I've got nothing against Phipps as a person, he's been incredibly admirable in his dedication to the club. I'm just not sure that he's good enough to be a starting 9 in the Soup. He's still better than McKibbon mind.

 

[Braveheart81]

I was at the Rebels vs Force game and thought Phipps was one of your best players. I doubt you'd have won if he hadn't played so well. He sparked the attack that led to a couple of the tries.

He cops a lot of crap because he is nowhere near as good as Genia. That doesn't make him a bad player.

Burgess is a top signing for the Rebels though.

 

[Dumbledore]

I was at the Rebels vs Force game and thought Phipps was one of your best players. I doubt you'd have won if he hadn't played so well. He sparked the attack that led to a couple of the tries.

He cops a lot of crap because he is nowhere near as good as Genia. That doesn't make him a bad player.

Burgess is a top signing for the Rebels though.

He's improved a lot this year, but it's pretty disingenuous to say he gets flack because he's not Genia. People get stuck into him because his pass isn't good for a top-flight scrumhalf. It's high, low, too far forward, behind the man, too hard, too soft and then occasionally it's right where it needs to be. If he could just put the ball where it needs to be eight times out of ten people would be very happy with him. Instead it's about five from ten on a good day.

 

[en_force_er]

Burgess is 28 with at least another WC cycle (if not two) ahead of him. Let's remember the bloke started playing professionally very very old and as such has used "less minutes in his legs".