Quade telling it how it is

[Hugh Jarse]

Didn't you see Nuci on the Rugby Club segment on the Women's 7's search?

This seems to be his number 1 priority at the moment.

When you have to resort to a reality TV show format to audition for the Rio team, you have to feel that it is more of act of desperation than a deliberate and considered strategy.

Touring around the country, surrounding yourself with plenty of fit young women desperate for a tilt at Olympic glory is certainly a more attractive prospect than dealing with precocious talent and "toxicity" within the camp of the showpiece of the longer form of the game.

 

[Braveheart81]

Lots of people on here saying QC (Quade Cooper) didn't go about this in the right manner. No one knows for sure what has goe on behind the scenes. Maybe QC (Quade Cooper) has voiced these to Deans, the players, ARU and it's fallen on deaf ears.

If he has voiced his issues with the players and no one agreed with him then he needs to realise that maybe the problem is with him.

 

[emuarse]

It's not that complicated.
1 Define the issue.
.that's easy, a well performed super 14 player with mediocre Test form at best, is refusing to play under the existing coaching staff.
2, Resolve the issue.
..Even easier,thanks for your input Mr mediocre Test player.
All the best in your future endeavours, oh and by the way please close the door on your way out.
Thank you.

I knew when I did the post that I'd lure a Fern Muncher with your type of reply - it was just too tempting a bait to ignore

Guys

You can do better than this

FP

 

[Torn Hammy]

Maybe Khoder is trying to get Quade an 'off season' so he can sell Quade & SBW to Japan next year. Its a crazy idea, but I found mentioning Khoder Nasser's name in crazy theories makes them a little more believable.

You may be selling Nasser a bit short. This quote offers a bit of insight to the present problem.

"For him, it's all about “balls” – having the balls to back yourself and go it alone. “The boys, Sonny and Anthony, they've got elephant balls,” he says. “They don't feel the heat. If you don't have balls, you don't have a manhood.”
Despite the bombast, Nasser is well read and enjoys books on history, philosophy, religion and great sportsmen. The book that's had the greatest influence on him, he says – apart from the Holy Koran – is Alex Haley's The Autobiography of Malcolm X.
"The lesson in that book is that you can be so small and be up against a massive system. That doesn't mean you're not going to get anywhere.
"He took a stance. Even though he knew he'd be killed, it didn't stop him and that's something to admire. He had balls, balls for a good cause."

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/boxing/lord-of-the-ring-20100727-10taz.html

 

[Richo]

To a certain point, that is true. However, when the player in question is the chief playmaker, you have to base the game style and plan around their strengths and weaknesses, whilst trying to exploit the oppositions weaknesses.

There's some weight to this argument, but I don't know that Quade has the runs on the board to make this argument. He was wonderful for the Reds in 2011 and had some great games for the Wallabies in 2010, although I would argue that Beale's sublime form was as much a factor in the team's attacking play then. But Quade has not really kicked on since then. Flashes of brilliance, but much longer spells of mediocrity. This may, in part, be a result of the game plan, but game plans don't make plays kick poorly, drop balls, and throw interceptions. So I'd be more sympathetic to Quade wanting the team built around and playing his style if he'd had some more recent dividends.

I think your NFL analogy is alright except I'd say the analogy needs to include the differences between college football and the NFL. College football is a lot more high scoring and quarterbacks pass the ball a lot more. There is also a lot more shotgun plays and long passing games. This is because defences aren't as good.

The NFL is far more of a running game and quarterback's passing games are much shorter. Whilst it is true that teams shape their offence around their quarterbacks and their key attacking players, the style of attack is far more reserved than in college. Defences are far more attuned at shutting down long passing games and will intercept the ball far more frequently if it is persisted with.

Not only this, everyone at the NFL level is bigger, faster, smarter, and more experienced. In a very real sense, the field radically shrinks for the QB. It's very, very hard to predict QB success from one level to the next for all those reasons (same goes for running backs). For example, high-octane college offenses don't even call plays -- not even the QB on the field does. Every player wears a bracelet that tells them what the next play is and they follow that order, relying on speed, athleticism and execution. That simply won't work in the NFL because defenses are so much bigger and better. To my mind, the difference between Test and Super Rugby isn't quite as stark but it's an interesting comparison because it suggests that each level needs to be taken more on its own terms. It takes time to adjust to the new level - not just because the players are better, but because the game itself is different. Managing that adjustment is a question of coaching, but also of player maturity and understanding.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd say another good example of the difference between Super and Test Rugby is Scott Higginbotham.

It has taken him a while to get going at test level but it seems now that he is muscling up a lot more and getting involved in the tight stuff.

It's obviously been drilled into him that he needs to play a much tighter game in test rugby than in super rugby to be successful.

 

[I like to watch]

I knew when I did the post that I'd lure a Fern Muncher with your type of reply - it was just too tempting a bait to ignore

How clever of you, and there I was thinking you were just a fanboy with a one track mind that QC (Quade Cooper) is perfect and when he's not it's someone else's fault.
Who would have thought!
Well done!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Rule 6 guys. Play the Ball not the Man.

Pretty sure the mods will start deleting posts, issuing Yellow Cards, and eventually shut this thread down if we don't behave.

 

[Loki74]

All just speculation, but I can't help thinking this all goes back to the World Cup. Cooper shot his mouth off back then and thought he could strut his stuff. Deans came up with a very conservative World Cup strategy that clearly didn't suit Coopers style (notwithstanding that Deans seemed to have been working on a very attacking running rugby style for the past 2 years before that - Cooper wasn't the only one who looked a bit bewildered by it all). Cooper executed woefully, lost confidence and got injured (triple whammy). Since then his agent and "bros" likely in his ear that wasn't his fault, all Deans fault and not appreciating Cooper's talent.

Now there may be some grains of truth in Cooper's views, but I really can't see how this goes anyway other than ARU says no ARU top up. Quade uses that as the excuse to back out of his Queensland deal and heads overseas to make some big money in Japan or Europe then on to the NRL. Means he can go saying "I am too talented for the Wallabies. They don't understand my talents and skills. NRL will appreciate me".

 

[cyclopath]

You'll note 2 deletions.
Next step will be points for any more personal crap.

 

[Braveheart81]

Just out of curiousity, do you get a notification if you get points issued against you by a moderator?

 

[Scoey]

<snip> This may, in part, be a result of the game plan, but game plans don't make plays kick poorly, drop balls, and throw interceptions. <snip>

A few people have mentioned this Richo, and I just want to throw this out there. I acknowledge the gap between Super Rugby and Test Rugby but take Will Genia, pre recontracting with the Reds this year and then after.

He was rubbish for the first half of the season - slow service, poor options, silly mistakes - then once the contracting business was sorted, he was back to his brilliant best. Such a stark difference and almost overnight.

The reason I mention this is just to demonstrate the impact that off-field distractions can have on a player. I'm not saying it did in QC (Quade Cooper)'s case, just throwing it out there. The game plan may not have made him kick poorly, drop balls and throw intercepts, but other factors may have had an influence. Does this hold water do you think?

 

[cyclopath]

Just out of curiousity, do you get a notification if you get points issued against you by a moderator?

Yes.

 

[cyclopath]

A few people have mentioned this Richo, and I just want to throw this out there. I acknowledge the gap between Super Rugby and Test Rugby but take Will Genia, pre recontracting with the Reds this year and then after.

He was rubbish for the first half of the season - slow service, poor options, silly mistakes - then once the contracting business was sorted, he was back to his brilliant best. Such a stark difference and almost overnight.

The reason I mention this is just to demonstrate the impact that off-field distractions can have on a player. I'm not saying it did in QC (Quade Cooper)'s case, just throwing it out there. The game plan may not have made him kick poorly, drop balls and throw intercepts, but other factors may have had an influence. Does this hold water do you think?

He also came back from a long injury lay-off and had much less rugby under his belt before Tests than he would like. Probably multiple factors, but yours certainly one.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think that is potentially a cause.

Rugby doesn't exist in a vacuum. A players performance on the field is certainly affected by things off the field. Multiple people have cited QC (Quade Cooper)'s breakup with Stephanie Rice as a factor and stress over negotiating contracts is likely to have an influence as well.

Whilst it isn't an excuse; everyone has stress in their life and whilst it might be a cause for a drop in performance in other areas of your life, it could certainly be influencing how he has been playing.

 

[p.Tah]

You may be selling Nasser a bit short. This quote offers a bit of insight to the present problem.

"For him, it's all about “balls” – having the balls to back yourself and go it alone. “The boys, Sonny and Anthony, they've got elephant balls,” he says. “They don't feel the heat. If you don't have balls, you don't have a
manhood.”
"The lesson in that book is that you can be so small and be up against a massive system. That doesn't mean you're not going to get anywhere.
"He took a stance. Even though he knew he'd be killed, it didn't stop him
and that's something to admire. He had balls, balls for a good cause."

that's great for Khoder to think that, but he isn't the one being killed. His players are the ones copping the heat.
- Mundine is universally disliked in Oz and outraged a nation with his 9/11 comments
- SBW alienated an entire code when he walked out on the Dogs
- Now Quade has basically shot himself in the foot

So Khoder instils these beliefs in others, tells them to rage against the machine whilst he sits back, rarely talks to the media and collects the money from his minions' contracts. He is not practicing what he preaches.

 

[tigerland12]

I haven't really paid much attention to this thread, or the whole QC (Quade Cooper) twitter matter, but I read what he said last night, and fuckin hell Quade you're digging a hole.

I can understand that he has issues with the environment, and I'm sure he isn't the only one, and yes the Wallabies tactics are fairly dull, but you simply don't speak out. Keep it to your self for christsake. National teams cannot play like Super Rugby sides, if Quade wanted the Wallabies to play the exact same as QLD it simply wouldn't work, the intensity and physicality is far more evident in test rugby.

But then to say he wouldn't play for the Wallabies again in this environment is an absolute joke. He's my favourite player, but I cannot fathom why on earth he would even think of saying that.

The only positive for me in this is that he said he will play out his contract with QLD, and we all know that is far more important than the wallabies

 

[Lee Enfield]

From Quade's comments it is plainly clear that he has a lot to learn about test rugby.

As several journos have highlighted in the last few days, there is a massive difference between Super Rugby and Test Rugby and the style of play that works in each.

Quade needs to learn that he has to pick his moments better in test rugby and it won't work to just adopt a fast and loose approach.

Genia understands the difference and plays a far more reserved style in test rugby. He runs the ball less because he realises that he needs to pick his moments better. Defences are better and poor choices will result in turnover ball.

I think your NFL analogy is alright except I'd say the analogy needs to include the differences between college football and the NFL. College football is a lot more high scoring and quarterbacks pass the ball a lot more. There is also a lot more shotgun plays and long passing games. This is because defences aren't as good.

The NFL is far more of a running game and quarterback's passing games are much shorter. Whilst it is true that teams shape their offence around their quarterbacks and their key attacking players, the style of attack is far more reserved than in college. Defences are far more attuned at shutting down long passing games and will intercept the ball far more frequently if it is persisted with.

The comaprison between College and NFL and S15 and International rugby is spot on.

The reality is, you don't see Aaron Rogers, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, being selected as a teams playmaker due to their passing/attacking skills and then being told to implement a defensive offensive, based around the run and wearing the clock down.
Their teams still run to ensure the opposition still have to defend the run, but the run is more about creating passing opportunities or game manangement, than about making yards. Their teams are primarily a passing/attacking offense, and the team is selected, trained and implement a game plan around their QB's skills and strengths.
These guys despite the step up from College to NFL, still post 5000 plus passing yards in a regular season all based around passing/attacking offense and their teams win. The key is, it isn't all out aerial warfare, nor is it all out ground and pound. It is mix of Passing and Ground and Pound, with the emphassis skewed towards the passing game, probably in the order of 70-30 or even 80-20 with Brees, Brady and P.Manning.

Picking Cooper and playing the style of game the Wallabies are now, would be like picking Brees, Brady, Rogers or Manning and asking to them to play a Jets' style Ground and Pound defensive offensive. Yes it will get wins, but it will also give nearly as many losses and the wins will be scrappy, boring, uninventive and unattractive, low scoring affairs.

Cooper needs to learn that it will never be all out attacking/adventurous play, but what is being dished up by the Wallabies currently, has gone way to far the other way. Cooper is not the 10 the Wallabies should pick if they want to play this style, we have Barnes for that. The 2010 Wallabies had the attacking style and balance right, we just didn't have the consistancy to execute it week in week out.

 

[mudskipper]

Is Cooper really blaming the team environment for his poor form…? Cooper hasn’t played any good rugby since the 2011 Reds championship year…Does Cooper understand his place in the team, he isn’t the team delegate…

I think Cooper is the toxic element at the Wallabies…

Further to this does he actually give a toss that his team mates are on tour while he is creating media issues in Australia… Coopers timing is clearly out like his pass… Frankly I wouldn’t miss him if Nasser sold him to the Eskimos and he never put a gold jersey on again, I’ll add to that I call for a round of applause…

I do remember Deans and the ARU backing Cooper when it looked like he could have his contract ripped up because of his drunk’n lawless behaviour… I suspect he is pissed off because they won’t pay him what he wants now…

 

[cyclopath]

I haven't really paid much attention to this thread, or the whole QC (Quade Cooper) twitter matter, but I read what he said last night, and fuckin hell Quade you're digging a hole.

I can understand that he has issues with the environment, and I'm sure he isn't the only one, and yes the Wallabies tactics are fairly dull, but you simply don't speak out. Keep it to your self for christsake. National teams cannot play like Super Rugby sides, if Quade wanted the Wallabies to play the exact same as QLD it simply wouldn't work, the intensity and physicality is far more evident in test rugby.

But then to say he wouldn't play for the Wallabies again in this environment is an absolute joke. He's my favourite player, but I cannot fathom why on earth he would even think of saying that.

The only positive for me in this is that he said he will play out his contract with QLD, and we all know that is far more important than the wallabies

not if his Reds contract is not ratified by the ARU. Personally, I think he should be let play for Qld. I suspect he does not really want to limit himself to just thst, however.