Quade telling it how it is

[thierry dusautoir]

I think the average standard of player is much better and defences are better with less missed tackles. Far fewer opportunities are presented.

The pressure of test match rugby can't be ignored either. It is a bigger stage and players are only human. I think nerves come in to test match rugby far more than in Super Rugby.

I call bullshit. One only needs to see old tapes to see the structures wallabies pre deans have, Wales in the World Cup & even the structures the All Blacks have to see that when a game plan is implemented defences open.

Best thing that sums up what quade needs and i will look for the video was a game 2011 I think against the Sharks where quade called the play had his four outside runners lines closed down by a shooting defence so he turned the ball inside to rocket rod davies for the try.......5 options open, he just had to choose the best

 

[fatprop]

Problem is that you're going to have 15 guys thinking or seeing different opportunities at the any given time. they're never going to all line up and gell.

So why don't the ABs have that issue? They certainly don't act as 15 different people when they see an opportunity

 

[thierry dusautoir]

So why don't the ABs have that issue? They certainly don't act as 15 different people when they see an opportunity

Because they follow a set gameplan aimed at creating and exploiting said opportunities?

 

[randalf8]

So why don't the ABs have that issue? They certainly don't act as 15 different people when they see an opportunity

Probably because they aren't subject to the deans philosophy. After all, he isn't their coach.

AB gameplans are far more structured than people like to think. They gain the vast majority of their field position by precision kicking, not headless chook style "having a crack".

 

[Torn Hammy]

I call bullshit. One only needs to see old tapes to see the structures wallabies pre deans have, Wales in the World Cup & even the structures the All Blacks have to see that when a game plan is implemented defences open.

Best thing that sums up what quade needs and i will look for the video was a game 2011 I think against the Sharks where quade called the play had his four outside runners lines closed down by a shooting defence so he turned the ball inside to rocket rod davies for the try...5 options open, he just had to choose the best

For me, this makes him the best playmaker in world rugby.

I'm amazed that people can't see this rare quality.

 

[BPC]

While I feel that there is a certain amount of truth in QC (Quade Cooper)'s comments, I don't think he has done himself any favours by publicly discussing his views shortly after some less than sparkling play and in the larger context of not having had a really good game for the Wobs in some time.

Of course he probably didn't volunteer this out of the blue and it was in response to some specific questions but still.

 

[Jiggles]

So why don't the ABs have that issue? They certainly don't act as 15 different people when they see an opportunity

Their gameplan was incredibly structureted with every player knowing his duty at a particular point in time. When the structure is there it allows for the play makers to stop the opportunity when it opens up, as planned.


Personally, I think the fact that forwards are so slow to align in attack and are often screamed at as to where to go gives a bit of credence to my point. The fact that they look confused and hesitant when they align, as if they're not sure who should be where, gives me even more belief in my point of view.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

For me, this makes him the best playmaker in world rugby.

I'm amazed that people can't see this rare quality.

My friend, plays/moves that probe like this off the back of a scrum or line out, set up the backline to take advantage of the broken defensive line. You would be a fool to think that what makes a good flyhalf is someone who can just conjure 100m tries just because he is a playmaker.

A Flyhalfs job is to know whats the best play to call; to create the opportunities and to take advantage of the ones that open from this. Anyone can spot weaknesses and Holes, it takes a playmaker with vision to knwo how to best exploit it.

 

[Torn Hammy]

I think the respective crowds at the Tahs' and Reds' matches would tend to endorse Quades views.

 

[Scoey]

For mine, this whole argument could be summed up into, "yeah I like Quade" and "Nah I don't like Quade much at all".

It's the typical argument we see time and time again regarding most of these types of players. For example, Richie steals a ball at an AUS ruck and there will be two schools of thought depending on whether you like the guy or not. a. CHEAT!! b. GENIUS!!! Legalities, rules, whatever don't come into it generally. Same applies here.

Just my 2c. Continue.

 

[DPK]

The only person who decides whether you're a cheat or a genius is the ref. Penalty = cheat, turnover = genius.

 

[Scoey]

The only person who decides whether you're a cheat or a genius is the ref. Penalty = cheat, turnover = genius.

If it were that simple, I'd actually have to spend my work days doing work and not wading through the pages and pages of argument.

 

[TOCC]

I don't understand how some of you criticize Deans so emphatically for shitty game plans and zero cohesion... Yet when a player suggests they need to attack more if they are to beat the AB's he gets dumped with criticism...

We were held try-less twice this year, yes the forwards were plodders at times but that back line has been nothing short of disappointing.

It's had been reflected in the plummeting TV ratings and crowds will follow in time..

The Wallabies are the Waratahs of international rugby, and its damaging the code in Australia.

 

[randalf8]

I don't understand how some of you criticize Deans so emphatically for shitty game plans and zero cohesion. Yet when a player suggests they need to attack more if they are to beat the AB's he gets dumped with criticism.

It's possible to think Deans has no viable plan and that Cooper needs to pull his head in at the same time. They aren't mutually exclusive positions.

 

[cyclopath]

[waffle on] The oft-repeated mantra that Deans has no game plan really baffles me. Watching many games, a plan can be seen. Whether that plan is effective or not may well be an issue. Whether that plan seems to be executed properly or not is another issue.
Take, for example, the last game. It seemed to me there was clearly a plan, but very poor execution in the first half let the team down (no, I am not singling Cooper out for criticism here, but he had a poor game by his standards), whereas better in the second half paid enough dividends to win. To whit, the breakdown play was positive, with real attempts at quick recycling, the defence was aggressive and effective, and the moves to go wider, where Argentina were thinner, were on, but didn't come off.
Fatprop's explanation of the other pet expression "Play what is in front of you" seemed to make pretty good sense to me.

Because they follow a set gameplan aimed at creating and exploiting said opportunities?

Exploiting opportunities is just that. Playing the situation that presents itself at that exact moment, i.e. what is in front of you. You can't have a defined plan to do that, as you don't know what is about to present itself. It seems to me that the ABs are much better decision makers, and their instinct when presented with a counter-attack chance is to play ball in hand as much as possible and to support, support, support which is their great strength.
Sure, have a plan that is more likely to lead to these opportunities, and the ABs seem to do a better disciplined and more accurate version of what I said above. It seems pretty simple, but incredibly well done.
I think we have had plans, but for a number of reasons, many to do with Deans, we have not executed them well. Poor selections, players out of position, players unfit and so on.
Cooper's statement of intent to have a crack is great, but if that means doing his own thing when he sees fit, I'm not so sure. If it means being generally positive, and looking for attacking opportunities (except for cross-field chip kicks in the in-goal / our 22m!!) then great, of course it makes sense.
[waffle off]

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think the sign of a really great coach is the ability to sum up the strengths and weaknesses of the players at your disposal and come up with a winning game plan based on them. I hesitate to raise a League example, but I am also a St George fan, and the thing that impressed me so much about Wayne Bennett when he coached us is that he turned up day one, had a look around, summed up that they had the makings of a good defensive unit, with a long kicking 5/8, but probably lacked any of the attacking stars he had had at Brisbane and built the plan from there. St George were never going to win games 30 to nil, but they did win a lot by 10 to 4 etc. What has always worried me about Deans is that he doesn't seem to adapt his plan for the players he has available to use.

I think all Bennett's teams share one characteristic and I think it is their decisive characteristic: the players believe in Bennett and from my observations they believe in everything he does, on and off the field.

 

[Sully]

I agree Cyclo. Saying the Wallabies have no game plan is a greater indictment on the punters sprouting it than on Deans. There is always a plan. Maybe not a good plan, maybe not an effective plan, maybe not a plan the players can follow, but there's a plan all the same.

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[randalf8]

Who has been saying there isn't a plan? Most of the criticism I see suggests the plan exists but that it's just shit.

 

[cyclopath]

Who has been saying there isn't a plan? Most of the criticism I see suggests the plan exists but that it's just shit.

With all dues respect, you've been here a day, and I've been here a little longer. Believe me, the lack of a game plan has been mentioned one or a thousand times.
We have detailed files!

 

[Jiggles]

Come on guys there is no set structure to the Wallabies game. There is no set pattern to where they put their next phase, it's soley a proposition of the player who has the ball at that moment. There is no plan to move the defense where they want it to go. Sometimes it works due to attitude, most times it fails. They do this until one of the Wunder Kids does something awesome, and if they don't they kick it down the full backs throat.